More Important: Form or Arrow Tuning?

[lil red rooster]

I have had some form of bow in my hand for as long as I can remember.  I have taken shooting lessons from several well known archers and have gone over countless articles and videos on arrow tuning.  I have set up more bows than I care to count and have tuned arrows of every spine and almost every manufacturer.  That being said, I wanted to see just how much the spine of the arrow would affect shot placement.  I have a custom rosewood Tomahawk 55#@28 and pull just over 28".  The shelf is actually cut slightly before center.  I used and Easton Epic 600 with a 50 grain brass insert and a 250 grain point and an Easton Trad Only 340 with the aluminum insert and a 100 grain point.  Both arrows are 30".  With those two arrow I was shooting 3" groups at about 16 yards.  Granted they did not recover nearly as well as my normal arrows, but shouldn't there have been some left right movement?  Shouldn't they have impacted the target a foot on either side of the bullseye?  Thoughts and experiences please.

[gringol]

Form is the most important.  Period.  A perfectly tuned arrow shot with bad form will still be a bad shot.  I think fletching can mask a lot of minor tuning problems so a fletched arrow will often fly less than perfect, but still group ok.  Imo tuning makes the arrow more efficient, but doesn't do a whole lot for accuracy for most shooters (assuming it is not too far off the correct spine).  Obviously, shooting a 40# spine out of a 80# bow will be ugly regardless of form.

[Bill Carlsen]

I read an ad in an old archery publication printed back in the 1930's. It said there were two things you needed to shoot well. One was well matched equipment and the other was good form. So for  me if one is off the other wouldn't matter so much. You really need both.

[lpcjon2]

Form is most important, any arrow can be tuned to compensate for bad form. That only cheats you when the heat is on.

[monsterchelli]

Tim (lpcjon2)

Very well stated      

[Looper]

If the arrows are fletched, and you're shooting field points, even a wide assortment of spines will hit pretty close together. The flight won't be pretty, but they'll still hit reasonably close. Put on a wide broadhead or shoot a bareshaft, and you'll see pretty clearly how the spine affects the flight.

[lil red rooster]

I understand that the feathers will cover up some of the errors in flight.  But, shouldn't the the paradox and the differences in spine cause the arrows to recover at different rates and at different points in the oscillation?  This should cause some right/left drifting to show that the arrows are incorrect.  I am not looking at this from the perspective of a hunter or a target archer.  I am just making an observation on accuracy.  So often I here people blame accuracy on equipment and this seems to not be the case.  If form is generating the consistency and the accuracy then arrow tuning is relegated to an improvement in recovery time, or an increase in penetration.

[lpcjon2]

If the form is good any arrow should be able to hit the target close to center. Minor adjustment needed.If you tune the arrow and noy concern yourself with your form, all your shots will be off. and those other factors will be greatly enhanced.JMHO

[lil red rooster]

lpcjon2, could you elaborate on the second sentence in that post?  Either the diction/syntax or the misspelled word after 'and' is making it difficult to understand what you are saying.  I want this discussion to help me understand better the different views on tuning and form and how they relate to the shot.

[moebow]

lrr,  What he is trying to say (I believe) is if your equipment is tuned but you have poor (read that as inconsistent) form you will not shoot well.  BUT, if your form is repeatable (consistent) you can have pretty badly tuned equipment and still shoot pretty well.

FWIW, You are really "chasing your tail" if you try tuning before you have developed consistency in your shooting.  Get your bow and some arrows that are somewhere around the draw weight of your bow and shoot until you can shoot those arrow pretty much to the same place.  THEN it will be time to "tune."

[Orion]

The recent trend is to tune to the nth degree, and in truth, most folks don't have form good enough to do it. I'd vote for form being the most important factor.  Have been shooting sticks for more than 50 years. One of the things I've discovered is that most bows will shoot a fairly wide range of spines well, on the overspining side. They don't handle underspines as well.

One of the things Howard Hill did in his shooting demonstrations was collect an arrow from each of the shooters and proceed to shoot those arrows, which were obviously not matched to his bow, into the bulls eye one after the other.  

Now cameras didn't usually focus on arrow flight back then, but I suspect it was pretty good as well.  Sure, if you strip an arrow down and put a big, bulky head on it, it has to be matched perfectly to the bow to shoot straight. But short of that extreme,  most arrows that are spined reasonably close to the draw weight at the shooters draw length will shoot quite well, better than most are capable of shooting.  

[lpcjon2]

Let me explain it this way, I have bows that range from 50-70# I can put any arrow I have on any bow I shoot(I practice my form constantly) and they will be within an 6-9" spot. Minor adjustment for me would be simply head weight(ranging from 125-169gr)to bring them tighter.

  My feeling is that without the good form my arrows would be all over the place and I would spend a ton of time adjusting side plates.rests,nock points, ect to get them to be on the mark. Good consistent for is a must.

[FerretWYO]

Originally posted by moebow:

FWIW, You are really "chasing your tail" if you try tuning before you have developed consistency in your shooting.  Get your bow and some arrows that are somewhere around the draw weight of your bow and shoot until you can shoot those arrow pretty much to the same place.  THEN it will be time to "tune."

Spot on advice.

[lil red rooster]

Thank you all very much.  Those are the types of opinions I am interested in.  I have talked to far too many people that are concerned with 5 grains here and 1/4" there.  Through personal experience I was starting to realize that form consistency was the first, and most important, part of the shot.  TradGang is the best place to bounce these theories off of some of the more seasoned veterans of the sport.  I still welcome more opinions and insight on this topic.  There is always more to learn.

[mongoose]

I would have to say form, without good form tuning would be difficult.  

[Bowwild]

An Olympic friend demonstrated shooting poorly tuned arrows very tightly at great distance. Of course his form is impeccable.

Personally, I want well-tuned in case I have a hiccup in form.  Penetration on the target isn't important like it is on game.

[Brianlocal3]

I vote form first. Im not a tuning guru, never have and quite frankly dont feel im good enought to do it. I dont underdstand force curves and paradox that in depth. I do know that with a TH 125 or Stinger 125 I can get my arrows to hit what I want. My field points are better but my BH do as well as I need, and good enought i dont try to shoot groups with them.

[Looper]

Yeah, Moebow said it best. A proper form and release is going to be the most forgiving. An archer with good form can use wider heads, smaller fletching, and a wider variance in shaft spines and weights and still have acceptable accuracy, even at longer distances.

A bad form can work, if the archer repeats it the same for each shot. This type of archer is going to have a much more narrow scope of arrow setup that will work for him. Typically he'll need to go with narrower heads and larger fletchings.

An archer with form issues and inconsistencies (like a floating anchor point, or plucking release) will have a heck of a time getting good arrow flight. This fellow will need the biggest fletchings he can find and need to keep his hunting range pretty close.

I agree that getting the form correct is the first step. It does take time to ingrain the correct motions, too. A lot of folks coming from the compound world get frustrated at the time commitment needed to become a good barebow shooter.

[Night Wing]

In my opinion, form and a tuned arrow go hand in hand.

[moebow]

Originally posted by Night Wing:
In my opinion, form and a tuned arrow go hand in hand.

OF COURSE they do!  

It is just that for a beginner that has no consistency yet, they cannot tune because they can't tell WHAT is making the arrow fly the way it is  -- or where.  Beginners need to get some arrows that are near their bow's draw weight and SHOOT.  Tuning can only come later.