Why such a long wait for bows?

[Zradix]

Yep,

Communication is a real key.
There doesn't really need to be a lot of communication after the details are ironed out.

But when things change, be it because the buyer changed his mind about something or the bowyer has some type of problem that affects the done date there should be lots of up front, honest, and timely communication.

We're all human here.
We all need to remember that.
Treat each other the way we wish to be treated and things will generally work out...maybe not the way we hoped for ( cause we always hope for the absolute best case scenario )

The bad eggs get thinned out eventually..especially in this fairly close knit community.

We ( both bowyers and buyers) just need to realize that a few bad posts can really mess up a bowyer's rep.

and we all need to think about if this problem we're having is really bad enough to tell the "news" about it.

Sometimes...though a buyer can just say he's having a problem with a bowyer ( without naming ) anyone and the bowyer pipes in and gets pretty defensive....anonymity gone..and things look worse..why not just respond to a guy timely and privately in the first place...?

Gotta realize we're all people typing behind this text....

[kawika b]

Originally posted by capt eddie:
Can someone tell me why there is such a long wait for a custom bow?  Does it really take 6 months to build a bow.  Are the bowyers that far behind on their orders? Are there that many bows ahead of your?  If a bowyer has that many orders to fill, why do they not go up on the price of their bows so that they can make a good living and be able to get bows out in a reasonable length of time? Like 30 days.  I would rather pay them a higher price and get the bow earlier. From start to finish if it takes 12 hours of real work to produce a quality bow why not charge $100 an hour and build one bow instead of charging $25 an hour and needing to sell and build 4 bows for the same money?  Yes one bow cost $1200 and the other bows cost $300.  More people can afford a $300 bow but now the bowyer most built three times as many.  I think that in this day.  There are people that would pay $1200 for a bow if they could get the bow in a reasonable length of time.

Originally posted by capt eddie:
Thanks to all for the replies.  My post was not a complaint as much as a business question.  As I have researched the subject and I did find out that the cost of the bow does not have alot to do with the lead times.  As a matter of fact, The higher the cost usually ment a longer lead time.  There must be plenty of people buying $100 to $1800 bows.  I wonder if the one man, parttime operations would and could charge more for their bows and not have to work as much.  Then they could get out a bow quicker.  Be able to have their bows pay for insurance and retirement.  I do not begrudge a bowyer making a good living doing what he loves and be able to support himself and retire.  And if I did work for them I would like the same courtesy.  But if you tell some people that your are charging them $75 to $100 an hour labor they would go elsewhere.  Just check with a plumber, sheetmetal worker, or take your car back to the dealer for work.  They have no problem putting up a big sign that shows their rate.  Why not bowyers.

Originally posted by capt eddie:
Skitch:The bowyer could be the dealership and get that kind of money.
Sledge; My skewed estimation is that they deserve more out of their craft then living bow to bow. They would all like to retire someday with money in the bank.
daniel boon;  You are right $1200 is very reasonable for a bow.  And the $500 bow that some bowyer knocked out might offend some of our local bowyers.  They might have just as much time and money in the same bow that is being sold elsewhere.  They just have to work at other jobs for their retirement and insurance.  The $1200 bowyer has that worked in the price.  Good for them.  I do not know where the idea come from that I am against bowyer in any way.  As you can all see from the post.  There are different feelings on this subject from within our ranks.  I think that they deserve everything they can get for thier bows.  I am not one of the labor forces that make minimum wages and I do want the products they can produce.  This is not a cut to any bowyer.  You all have my respect.  I jst hope that they are able to stay in business for generations to come.  Being able to do what they do for a good living is the only thing that is going to bribg young bowyers into the picture.  If a young bowyers sees that they must have two jobs to be able to live selling $500 bows he will probably not stay in business long.  But if he can sell $1200 bows he will be the future that traditional archery needs.

Originally posted by capt eddie:
That is probably the most annoying thing, is when a bowyer does not return email. Especially when they do it is from their Iphone. When they say it is all finished and will be mailed next week and next week never comes.

Originally posted by capt eddie:
How long do you wait, when they say it will be mailed in a couple of days, and it is 9 days later.  At what point is it considered unproffessional and aggrevating.  i draw the line at 9 days without a reason being give.  But the check cleared the back weks ago.  It has been getting sprayed and final coated twice now.

Originally posted by capt eddie:
yes that would be a good reason for the wait.  But this has went on for 3 weeks now.  Would you reply to a customer 3 times that "the limbs are beings sprayed and will be in the mail in a couple of days".  I understand that things happen.  But keep the customer informed of changes, or problems.  Voicing this issue on a public forum will let my know if my exspectations are to high in this matter. And i have nothing to worry about, it happens all the time. I think someone else quoted that Bowyers are great artist and craftsmen, just eccentric at times and not good businessman.  

Originally posted by capt eddie:
My current issue is with a bowyer that emailed on the June 15, that he finished the tiller on the limbs, will spray them an, and get them out next week. Then a week later an email that he is spraying the limbs and will get them out in a couple of days.  A week later the same type of email,  Spraying the limbs will get out in couple of days.  Three times the same story.  This post is not directed to hurt the bowyer or his business. I have tryed calling but only get a answering machine and no reply. Only he knows what is going on.  Just a little communication may solve all of this.But he has my lifes blood of money for a set of limbs that I do not have.  My first post was really in do conpare the two differant types of bowyers that i have researched.  The Big money guys and the lesser priced.

You went from a generalization to a rant. I can understand your being upset with the way your current transaction is going and you have every right to be upset but not all bowyers are like that and I don't think your thread paints the picture most of us see when it comes to buying a custom made bow. Your second post says that you didn't start this thread as a complaint but as a business question... the last couple of posts say otherwise.

[Zradix]

So?
Not the first time a thread has changed directions a bit after a few weeks.

Sounds like you're trying to put the poster on trial here..why?

I like your signature by the way.

[kawika b]

No one on trial here and I thought my post/posts have been clear up till now. Maybe not. It just reads like the thread starter started this thread because of his bad experience... which would have been understandable if it was... but his writing reads like he is implying that the majority of bowyers exhibit the kind of behavior/ bad business practices that he is currently experiencing... words like "bowyers", "they" and "their" tends to cause people to lump all bowyers into the discussed subject. Catch what I'm sayin?

[capt eddie]

My mistake in wording.  In the beginning I did not understand the normal workings of being a bowyer.  I am in construction and have deadlines on projects every day.  I just wondered how bowyers can get so far behind and not make any more money then they do.  Because of the hard work involved it both construction and bowyers,  Not alot of people are going into either trade.  I knew when i ordered this bow project that it would be 3 months per bowyer.  That was not a problem.  Three weeks ago when he said "in a couple days"  Thats what I expected.  Now he does not return calls or email.  I would love to be hearing from him on this matter.  He has time for posting here and other sites, but not the time to fill me in.  I have only delt with this bowyer, and never had problems.  I hope that there are not major problems in his life.  Just let me know about my project.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Eddie,  I really should apologize for calling you a whiner. i think if i got the same story about spraying limbs 3 times, in 3 weeks, I'd feel like i was getting the run around instead of the straight poop myself too.

But you really can't stereotype all bowyer's as being eccentric and poor businessmen even if it may be true in some cases.

I could give you a whole list of logical reasons how easy it is to get behind schedule that has nothing to do with the business part of it. That's not even mentioning personal problems..... Stuff happens....machines break down at inopportune moments, or some warranty issues pop up that always get 1st priority... it's endless..  

I'm running a bit behind schedule myself, as much as i hate to admit it. Fortunately I've got a pretty good bunch of guys that are being patient with me, and good honest communication is a must.... i refuse to rush through a bunch of bows and lower my standards because I've had some issues develop. i really hate having to give excuses but there are only so many hours in the day.

i sincerely hope things work out OK for you.  Kirk

[Sixby]

Eddie, I certainly agree with most of your posts and sentiments. One of my pet peeves is how much license that bowyers have been given and seems like it has become an acceptable thing.
I came into this from the construction business where not meeting deadlines was unacceptable and on larger construction jobs penalties were accessed for not meeting them. Excuses were unacceptable unless a change order was applicable.

A change order in this business could be as simple as Kirk described in communicating the time problem to the customer instead of lying and saying the bow is in the spray booth when it really isn't.

When a bowyer starts doing that then there is a very real reason to become fearful of the outcome and to question what is actually going on.

I certainly appreciate the bowers side too as I are one. We are all human and we all make mistakes/. When I have done that I have found that the truth is appreciated and there is not a better bunch of folks in the world than the customers I have had.
Hers's my take , I would rather the customer have a lower expectation on time of delivery than to be disappointed. When you deliver three months ahead of time most folks are thrilled. There are even exceptions to that though and I actually had to tell one guy that I would hang his bow on my rack until he wanted it delivered. He actually complained because I built his (custom) bow too fast and he became convinced that I had cut corners to do it. All without seeing the bow or shooting it.
That experience taught me to say this. I require six months but expect your bow anytime from two to four months out. That has worked pretty well.

Kirk has layed out how to properly handle the situation when a bowyer gets behind a bit.It is the ethical and moral way to do business and we should not expect or accept less than that.
God bless you all, Steve