Recurve Arrow Help

[Blue Tick]

Needing a little help wrapping my head around arrow spine for a new bow I'm getting here soon. I'm picking up a recurve soon that's 45# @ 28". The bow is cut 3/16th past center.

I like to shoot FMJ's, but will probably switch to CE Heritages so I can foot them. With that said, Stu Millers calculator show's I should be using 400 spine arrows. I was told that 500's with around a 200-225 grain tip should work great.

I really thought I was getting a grasp on arrow spine, based on using Stu's calculator. But, in talking with the bowyer (whom I know know's his bows) he feels 500's will work. I'm lost and confused now. Can you guys please help shed some light on this for me.

Thanks in advance.

[texbow2]

do you draw 28"? Based on my exp., 400's will be way too stiff for 45@28 regardless of how much you put up front. 500's with 200+ may work but don't be surprised if you have to go to 300gr up front or drop to 600 spine

[Blue Tick]

Originally posted by texbow2:
do you draw 28"? Based on my exp., 400's will be way too stiff for 45@28 regardless of how much you put up front. 500's with 200+ may work but don't be surprised if you have to go to 300gr up front or drop to 600 spine

Yes, I draw 28". I get what your saying completely. My 48# longbow likes 500 spine arrows with 145gr up front. The thing getting me most is the spine calculator (if I'm using it right) keeps spitting out 400's for the longbow and the new recurve I'm getting and that 500's are to weak.

Is the calculator that far off?

[ChrisM]

For me woodies are dead on with the calculator, but carbon always shows too stiff for me.

[Blue Tick]

Originally posted by ChrisM:
For me woodies are dead on with the calculator, but carbon always shows too stiff for me.

That's what I was kind of afraid of. Guess I'm going to have to just buy the arrows and start cutting 1/4" at a time to get where I need to be. I know if I foot the arrows that's also going to stiffen them up some more as well.

   :confused:    :confused:

[yeager]

Jeff,

Are you treating the insert as a footing? If not, inserts for HIT arrows are used as footings.  I shoot a Bob Lee Classic, 55# @ 28" and use FMJ 500"s as per Stu Miller's calculator. Using his calculator to match the required spine for my bow, the following arrow inputs put the 2 numbers within .1 of each other:

arrow size - FMJ 500
BOP length - 28 1/16
Pt weight  - 145
insert wt  - 0
Footing    - Yes(0.8 length & 16.0 weight(gr)
Nockend wt - 23
fletching  - 3x5

Just a suggestion. Good luck

[CoilSpring]

What make/model is your bow? What string type?  What thickness of riser plate? These 3 will determine whether 500's or 600's will be best.  400's will likely be too stiff.

[Rob W.]

What kind of GPP you looking for and do you have a favored broadhead?


I would go with CE 150 29" 175gr. head standard insert. 11gpp

If you like heavy CE 250 29.25" 175 gr.head and 100gr. brass 13.6gpp


Rob

[Blue Tick]

Bob,

Yes, I was putting the insert in as footing, however I could be doing it wrong. This is what I am doing, if I'm wrong please let me know. I'd like to be sure I'm using the calculator right.

Arrow Size - CE Heritage 150
BOP Length - 29
Pt Weight - 145
Insert wt - 0
Footing - yes (I'm putting 0.6, since Stu says .9 for a standard insert is built in and I'm adding 1.5" of aluminum outside to foot the arrow. Weight is 18 for the foot and 11gr for the insert)
Nockend Wt - 16
Fletching - 3x5
Dynamic Spine - 61.9

2nd Choice in arrow:

Arrow size - MFX 500
BOP length - 29
Pt weight - 145
Insert wt - 0
Footing - yes (I'm putting 0.6, since Stu says .9 for a standard insert is built in and I'm adding 1.5" of aluminum outside to foot the arrow. Weight is 18 for the foot and 75gr for the HIT insert)
Nockend wt - 16
Fletching - 3x5
Dynamic spine - 44.9

Bow info - Generic recurve (since TT is not listed)
Rated wt - 45
Rated draw - 28
My draw - 28
Strike plate position - -3/16
String material - 14 strand FF (I'm guessing on the string material)
Dyn spine Reg. 67.1

What am I doing wrong?

[Blue Tick]

Originally posted by Rob W.:
What kind of GPP you looking for and do you have a favored broadhead?


I would go with CE 150 29" 175gr. head standard insert. 11gpp

If you like heavy CE 250 29.25" 175 gr.head and 100gr. brass 13.6gpp


Rob

I don't have a favorite head. I've just gotten used to using 145gr. But, I definitely want to foot the arrows at least 1.5" to toughen them up some.

[yeager]

Jeff,

I ran your numbers with your specs and came out with the same data.

Next, for the CE150, I had to shorten the arrow to 28 3/8" and came up with 67.3 which is .2 from your bow.

As for the MFX500, I had to shorten the arrow down to 26 5/8 to get the numbers close.....66.8 compared to the bow's 67.1.  Pretty short arrow since your draw is 28".

I then used the MFX400 and to get the numbers close, I came up with an arrow length of 28 3/8". In this case, I suppose the 400 would be a better choice.

You are using his calculator OK, but just need to play with arrow length.  If you definitely want an arrow length of 29", I quess you'll have to play with the point weight.  As for the MFX, a different spine arrow was in order since the 500 had to be really short.

By the way,  the instructions in the calculator says that for an external footing you do put the insert weight in the "insert box" and the footing weight in the footing box.  Just for grins though, I put "0" in the insert box and the insert wt + the footing wt in the "footing wt box" and the final numbers came out the same. Therefore, I quess it doesn't matter.  

Anyway, Good luck....Bob

[Blue Tick]

Bob,

Thanks. I'm not opposed to 28 3/8", just was using 29" to make sure I had enough BH clearance. I did switch to 28 3/8" and got them same as you. I also kept it at 29" and switched my point weight to 125gr and came up with 67 even and still have a 10.4 gpi arrow, which I'm ok with. At this point, I think I am going to stick with 29" and try the 125gr points (I like the safety factor of 29"). If I don't like the performance, I will cut them to 28 3/8" and bump my point back to 145gr. But, there's not enough difference that will cause me to think it will be a major flight issue.

I do appreciate your help.

Jeff

[d from phx]

I am setting up a Martin X-200 Recurve foe a Vet that I teach and need some advice on what arrows to get. The bow is 30pounds at 28 and with his 29.5 in draw it is pulling 33 pounds. He wants to shoot woodies and be traditional. any advice woould be helpful. If anyone out there wants to help him and donate a set of arrow it would be so appreciated.

[hkmp5]

Hello Jeff,
A few additional things to consider:

You mentioned the bow was cut to -3/16 but there must be some thickness of strike plate also.  A typical Bear leather strike is about 1/16".  The strike plate thickness must be taken into account for a generic bow selection.  So where you have -3/16" not for the strike plate position try changing that to -1/8".  Also, you could also simply measure the strike surface position to be more exact (I can't tell you how many bows I have seen cut VERY differently than the manufacture reported.

Another thing to confirm is that you are including the footing weight also with the insert. As an example, the CE150 has an 11 gr insert PLUS you are adding ~20 more grains of aluminum.  
Thge 16 gr on the nock end seems a touch high for those shafts also unless you are using a wrap.  

Just food for thought.  I hope it ends up working well for you.  In the end, remember the important thing is how they tune for your regardless of what the DSC says.  If you are happy with the bare shaft testing then by all means shoot them confidently!

-Stu