broadhead penetration???

[ericmerg]

so me and my dad have had an on going arguement about the best way to bowhunt, when he took his hunters ed course  back in 1968 they taught that when you shot a deer you didnt want a pass through on the deer you wanted the arrow to stay in the body cavity so it would lop around causing more cutting action. and when i took mine this year they taught that a pass through gives quicker tracking and shorter blood trails. so which is it is a pass through what we should aim for or have it stuck in the body cavity?

[maineac]

OOOH this should start some debate.  My opinion is if the broadhead is   sharp  the cut left by the pass through would be more than enough to create the hemoraging required.  The second hole would increase the amount of blood on the ground.  A marginal hit might benefit from more cutting, but I think the better blood trail overshadows the additional slicing.

[Randy M]

Agree with Maineac.  Two blood trails are better than one.  Especially if you hunt from a treestand, where the entry wound is usually high and would take a while for the blood to fill up the cavity and bleed out.  And with a low exit wound, you usually have an instant blood trail to read and follow.  Just my opinion.

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by Randy M:
Agree with Maineac.  Two blood trails are better than one.  Especially if you hunt from a treestand, where the entry wound is usually high and would take a while for the blood to fill up the cavity and bleed out.  And with a low exit wound, you usually have an instant blood trail to read and follow.  Just my opinion.

Yep, I agree.

I have seen some pretty massive cutting damage from an arrow that stays in the deer, but that is making the most of an otherwise bad situation.

[elkbreath]

To me, how are you going to go about trying to keep the arrow inside?  On a whitetail with a sharp head, youre going to be getting passthroughs most of the time by default.  I say juist accept that fact and shoot the biggest head you feasibly can in order to use that energy effectively.  Two BIG holes rather then two small ones...

[Bill Carlsen]

A whole lot of "truths" that were expoused in the 60's have fallen by the wayside. While it is fun to take on dad on issues (we all did on one thing or another) the truth is is that you need find your own way. I am probably a bit older than your dad but in the past several years  have become convinced about the effectiveness of heavy FOC hunting arrows and the resulting improvement in penetration. As long as you are both having fun and harvesting animals keep at it. He'll come around.

[KentuckyTJ]

Here is what I want to know. What does he do to his setup to ensure his arrow stays in a deer if he believes thats best? Does he shoot a lower poundage than he has to or does he have his arrows flying so bad that they won't pass through?

Totally depends on where the hit is. If you hit both lungs and or heart I would rather a passthrough for a better blood trail but it isn't going to matter. If its a gut shot I'd prefer the broadhead stay inside and do its damage as the critter runs off. But with that said I am surely not planning to hit a deer in the guts so its a non issue.

I am planning on making a good shot. With a good shot through both lungs and or a heart or lung/heart I tune my arrow to fly as perfect straight as possible in hopes on getting a complete passthrough.

[gringol]

That old idea comes from bullet ballistics.  If a bullet passes completely through it generally doesn't have time to expand and create maximum damage.  A complete pass-through with a bullet can leave a tiny, pencil sized hole that doesn't bleed much.  A broadhead doesn't have that problem since it is already at maximum expansion, so the farther it penetrates the larger the wound channel and the quicker the bleed-out.

[awbowman]

I want two holes... it's called venting! Obviously I/We have WAY MORE confidence in the damage that a BH does as it passes through an animal (in the right spot) than they did in the 60's.

[wingnut]

The exit wound is the most important hole for blood and recovery.

Get the arrow out the other side and find your game.

Mike

[Running Buck]

Agree with Gringol, some of the old school ideas were spawned from military ballistics. A bullet that passes through a cavity wastes most of its energy. Arrows fitted with razor sharp broadheads kill by hemorrhage, two holes through the body cavity provide better blood trailing.

[RUTANDSTRUT]

i like a super sharp broadhead zipping through an animal.  two holes will always put more blood on the ground.  i have also found that a super sharp broadhead with a complete pass through makes an animal act less "explosive" after impact where many animals trot a few yards and act like they are not even hit dying within sight.

[Looper]

I'm with TJ. If your dad thinks the broadhead should stay in the animal, how exactly would he go about insuring that would happen? Purposely use a dull broadhead? Use a 20 pound bow? Only draw halfway? Use those ridiculous expandable broadheads?

[Sean B]

When I took my course in 1980, it was the same concept as the 60's.  But I agree that 2 holes are better than 1!  I don't loose sleep either if I dont get a complete pass through.  Just have to look harder for blood.

[joe skipp]

As a Bowhunter Ed Instructor, I don't recall telling anyone that an arrow will effectively to the job if it doesn't pass through.

Granted, we have all killed game when we didn't get total pass thrus and the arrow remained inside. Two holes are definitely better than one especially on the lower third of the animals chest cavity.

The old theory of the arrow doing more damage inside can be challenged if the shooter is using wood arrows. When the arrow snaps off the small portion inside just falls, doesn't remain stiff and continue to cut.

Aluminum or carbon that DOES NOT break off (and they will break off) does some cutting but basically opens up the entrance hole a tad larger to allow more blood to flow. The arrow can also hinder the flow of blood by remaining in the entrance hole.

A sharp head placed into the lungs/heart will finish off the animal whether you get a pass thru or not. Two holes make for an easier tracking job where the one hole will make your tracking job a bit more challenging. Just my 3 cents....  

[JimB]

In his 1943 article in "Ye Sylvan Archer",Fred Bear said this:

   

Again,Fred wrote that in 1943!

I have noticed similar results in regards to distances traveled and in recent years have made a strong effort to achieve passthroughs.Some of my shortest recoveries yet have been the result.

[deaddoc4444]

THE OLD  50s and 60s "Theory "   was the the cutting action INSIDE  was the way to go . That the broadhead wold   flail around in side  and continue to cut anything it came in contact with .
  The muscle and flesh  actually the to hold the arrow or part of it  in one place  and it  usually does NOT  move around if it is lodged in side . AND as mentioned above the shaft will then clog the hole and restrict blood flow and seriously  reduce a blood trail.    MOST   instructors  of   safety courses in the 60s  ( when they were in their infancy )  were NOT bow hunters  and "ASSUMED " things .   I am not putting them down  that is what they were TOLD to say or surmised .  I did teach that part of the course ( archery ) for a few years here in PA .     That was in the late 80s and I had  been told to tell new license holders to NEVER use  anything but a compound bow   cause the older  re-curves  were not capable of   killing .   "NOT" the game commission official stance , but it was the THEORY espoused by the guy  running that area .   That's how    CRAP gets promulgated .

[Ray Lyon]

As noted above, Fred Bear said it right almost 70 years ago. Fred Asbell wrote an article a few years back about arrow weight for hunting arrows in TBM.  In there he comments on how the trend has gone back and forth between light arrows and heavy arrows depending on who's carrying the torch. This following of 'icons' sometimes gets the masses to create a trend and thus the less filling/tastes great debate that you and your father are having.

Personally I want my broadhead exiting the animals far side so I get two holes (mainly I want that lower hole for better tracking since most times I'm in a treestand). With hundreds of deer and personal experience on tracking jobs, this has proven to be the key for me.  So I'm agreeing with Fred Bear based on my personal experience.

[calgarychef]

I like an exit hole down low to leave a nice blood trail.  I could see though if you made a bad shot into the shoulder or ham and the arrow stayed in there while the animal was running that the damage caused would be SEVERE.  In the ham you might even get lucky enough for the femoral artery to be severed by the "flailing" arrow, that would be a good thing indeed.  

So there isn't really a right or wrong answer to this one, there's simply different situations and the results that are encountered.

[JParanee]

Pass thru all the way