High FOC and Lots of feather..when is it too much feather..?

[Zradix]

Hey Gang,

I have some carbons on order.
This is my first time trying them outta a trad bow.

These are pretty light at 7.3gr/inch.
They're 31.5" full length.
So I'll have around a 260 grain shaft with inserts and feathers.

Hoping a 200-250 grain point will work outta my 45# bow.

Should end up with around 460-510grain arrow.
With a pretty high foc%.

Anyway, I'm thinking about using my normal 4.75" t-hawk cut feather in a 4@90˚ configuration.

I'm hoping for a very forgiving setup from the high foc with quite a bit of feather.
( hoping for little blood seeking darts really lol)

Then it occurred to me that I might be getting too much of a good thing here.

I don't give a hoot if my extra feathers slow my arrow down a few fps as long as I'm getting good stuff in return.


I do a pretty good accurate job gluing em on, but there always seem to be some feathers that aren't quite the same as others( just by nature) or didn't get in exactly the right spot on the shaft.

..but I was wondering if given this higher foc and a relatively high amount of feather I'll notice any inconsistencies there might be in my fletching job?

Thank you

[JimB]

I don't thing the degree of FOC will have anything to do with your fletch job.It isn't a bad idea to try to get your fletching consistent regardless.I'm only familiar with Bitz fletchers but most problems come from: 1.Not making sure the nock indexer is firmly clicked in to start.
           2.Not seating the nock all the way in the nock receiver and making sure it is centered in the receiver.
           3.Make a mark on your clamp at front or back of fletch to keep that consistent.

[maineac]

John,  

My ICS 500s @29.5, Onestringer reflective wraps and double doggs, 3 4" shield cut feathers and 200 gr. tips come in right a 480 grs.  

My understanding is high FOC helps arrow flight, and many go to smaller feathers.  I think the prinicple is the heavy front pulls the arrow more creating less need for lots of feather.  One of the folks with a better understanding here might shed more light.

[Zradix]

Thanks for the info guys.
Thanks for the tips Jim.
I'm really pretty good at fletching..but I know they don't come out PERFECT. Never seen an arrow that truly was, whether done by me or a pro.
Maybe real close, but feathers are a natural thing and they vary just a bit as I'm sure you know.

Thanks for the specs too Maineac...I wanna be like Mike..lol

Yeah, the high FOC basically means the balance point on your arrow is closer to the tip.

That balance point is sorta the spot the shaft turns on when when the feathers are trying to straighten things out.

The closer the balance point is to the tip the farther it is from the feathers.

The farther it is from the feathers the more leverage or mechanical advantage your feathers have to do their job.

( The penetration part of foc has mostly to do with less energy spent getting your arrow flying true and less energy spent by having a lighter tail end flopping around while the B-head is finding it's path trough a critter..at least that's my understanding)


So...you can get away with smaller feathers and still have as good of steerage.

My thought is I want to capitalize on the foc and get MORE steerage potential (maximum forgiveness I'm hoping)  by using the same setup I would on a lesser foc arrow.

I just don't want to run into a tail that wobbles just because of a slightly imperfect fletching job that would be completely unnoticeable on a lesser foc arrow.

I'm not trying to get all nit picky, scientific engineering, blah blah here.

Just never messed with carbs before and can see the potential for a problem.

...I can also see the potential for a really great flying, very forgiving HUNTING arrow if my fears are unfounded.

Thanks

[LITTLEBIGMAN]

suggest you read the ashby arrows reports. Big feathers weigh more thus they subtract from your overall foc.  You really dont need big feathers for more "steerage". if you have bare shaft tuned those arrows they will fly fine with smaller feathers. I shoot 2 inch razors!

[Zradix]

I've read em.
feathers don't weigh that much to make too much difference in foc. yes on paper...but not so much I'm gonna worry about it.
And they do slow the arrow down, which robs energy..

I have no doubt that I'll have enough energy when the arrow gets there. Whether I use 4-5" or 3-2"
 I'm just trying to do everything I can to help insure "there" is where I want it.

I just like the thought of the most forgiveness I can get in a hunting situation....the added benefit of an easier seen arrow isn't bad either.

I'm not sure ( that's what this post is about ) but I'll bet your arrows might be more forgiving if you had larger feathers.

Your setup is your own and I'm not knocking it.
I think I'm just looking for different attributes in my own.

Thanks

[Friend]

There is no replacement for building confidence as performing your own testing. Many times words are just words since traditional archery is highly individualistic.

On a side note: Bareshafting typically yields extremely poor results in above average windy conditions. Have tested 32% Ultra-EFOC bareshafts numerous times in windy conditions out to 25 yards. The arrows danced down range however were consitantly on the mark.

Big 3's w/100 grain inserts and 4" three fletch were shot under the same conditions out to 25 yards and still found the mark.

Best of luck!!

[Jim Wright]

I have shot Beman MFX carbons up to 30% f.o.c. with 3 five inch parabolics and had no flight problems whatsoever. I suspect as tests have shown you could get by with less fletching with high f.o.c. as long as you were shooting field points. With broadheads and especially large wide ones, I would be very careful about going too small on fletching.

[Biathlonman]

I'm as bad as anyone about wanting everything perfect.  Less worrying and more shooting would probably cure most ills.  I can't imagine in the "normal" range of feathers where your talking any issues appearing.  Fletch one with 3-4" and one with 4-4" and see which you like better.

[Zradix]

That's what I was looking for Jim..Thanks

I was thing that too biathalonman.
Sometimes I think I'm my own worst enemy.

[Terry Green]

Sir...you really do need to go hunting.    

[JimB]

Hah!

[Zradix]

yep

You don't have to tell me...lol

This time of year kills me.
Always thinking..what would be better, what would be better.

I shoot as often as possible...but it's no cure.
Heck, I dream about this stuff...
The other night was weird...some kind of telescoping arrow..lol

Those Carolina pigs keep looking better and better...If I could just insert a few more days into just one week.....

[Terry Green]

FOC - FOCFUS........Feathers - Smeathers..........Bevels - Smevels.


Hour and twenty from the Augusta Airport.....that's what you need to be worrying about...how to get to that airport.      

[mark land]

My opinion is if you need more fletching guidance by shooting huge, oversized feathers then you need to do some more tuning with your setup.  There is nothing out there that will not shoot and fly well with 4in feathers on most carbons shafts as long as the arrow is tuned properly to the bow.

[KSdan]

I used large feathers for years until I went to carbons with high foc. No need anymore.  Less fletch means they fly better in the wind- which blows all the time in most places I hunt.

Dan

[LITTLEBIGMAN]

Since High FOC is my goal, it makes sense to me to do what ever possible to reduce the weight on the nock end of my arrow. Sure feathers don't weigh that much. But if you cut your feather weight in half and skip the cap wrap too it adds up.  This little bit of weight reduction on the nock end can take you from an FOC arrow to an EFOC arrow.  For me Penetration is everything because I am forced to shoot light weight equip. An EFOC arrow just kills more efficiently out of a light bow.

[Zradix]

[Jason R. Wesbrock]

Originally posted by Zradix:
I've read em.
feathers don't weigh that much to make too much difference in foc. yes on paper...but not so much I'm gonna worry about it.
 

I agree. To me, this is just another of many things that are more important on the internet than in the woods.

[Zradix]

good point Dan.
The high foc arrows can act like a wind vane.