tune vs. form

[Pack]

I sometimes wonder with all the threads about bare shaft tuning and paper tuning.  Nock point height and brace height.  Underspined and overspined.  How many arrow flight problems are caused more by finger and hand tension, hand placement, and back tension.  Follow through and smooth releases.  It seems like when my form is good, as long as the arrow is stiff enough, it will fly nearly perfect.  

What percentage of arrow flight do you think is contributed to form rather than tune?  If 1/16" of nock height makes a difference, you are either a ridiculously good shot, your bow is not tillered right, or you form is not right.  

Assuming you have a well made bow, I really think there is a fairly large window for arrow spine, at least 1/4" variance in brace height, and nearly that much for nock point height.

As long as your arrow is stiff enough, I think it is about 70% form and 30% tune.  I know this is subjective and argumentative, but if your eyeball can't pickup a fishtail or porpoise, than you won't be able to shoot that arrow anywhere near its potential.

[monsterbuck]

[threeunder]

I agree Pack.  Since I focused on my form starting last year, my tuning "headaches" are mostly cured.
Ken

[Jake Diebolt]

I would think that with inconsistent or poor form, you'd have a heck of a time properly tuning your arrows anyway.

And a smooth release will do wonders for arrow flight. I didn't even bother tuning my arrows until I figured out my release and got at least half-decent form.

[Kentucky Jeff]

If you have bad form--but its consistent--your arrows SHOULD always do the same thing.  Consistency if the primary driver of accuracy.

The problem with bad form is its almost always results in inconsistency.

No matter what aspect of form you want to discuss--if you stop and REALLY look at it--good form drives consistency.  Bad form makes it impossible.

I personally went on a Quixotic quest to fix problems by playing with shafts, spines, tips, etc etc etc.... And at the end of the day the thing that fixed it all was investing money in a Rod Jenkins clinic and learning just what good form was...what back tension REALLY means.  How it drives everything like your release etc.  

You want to fix things...work on your form.  You want to CONFIDENTLY know when you release an arrow its going where you are looking.  Work on your form.  A blind bale will do more for your shooting than buying all the tabs and gloves, and arrows and tips at Three Rivers Archery.  

You can shoot arrows not tuned to a bow well providing your form is good.

[JamesKerr]

I think tuning is important as it will allow you to still get pretty darn good arrow flight even if you get a bad release or worse. But, form is Number ONE. You can have the best tuned bow and arrow combination but without good form it isn't going to do you a bit of good.

[calgarychef]

They really go hand in hand dont' they?  You can't tune an arrow if your form isn't consistent and you can't tell if it's bad form if you have inconsistent arrows.  The best you can do is to work on them TOGETHER a little at a time and slowly tweak form and tuning until it all comes together.  

When you see someone shooting 20" "groups" something is amiss but when you see 3" groups then I daresay things have come together nicely.

[eminart]

As a traditional newbie, this has been been an area of concern for me. I ordered my bow, and while waiting for it, I ordered some shafts, points, etc based on STU's calculator. I knew this would just be a starting point, but I had to start somewhere.

I've been shooting the bow for a couple of weeks and I know that my form isn't really consistent yet. That's frustrating for someone like me who likes to get everything tuned.

Anyway, I ordered a "test kit" of field points and tried some different sizes yesterday. I THINK I now have a good arrow set up, but it still requires a good shot by me.

[cbCrow]

In my opinion 80% of tuning problems go once good form is used. Both are important but form is #1 on my list.

[Archie]

I would opine that the two are certainly inseparable, but it's not a proportional-type of relationship.  A bow and her arrows must be compatible with one another, period.  But that compatibility will be impossible to discern without good form.  Good form allows the bow to do what it is supposed to do:  impart energy to an arrow.  If there is a crooked, imbalanced, inconsistent, or otherwise contradictory force going into the arrow at release, the arrow flies badly.  And unless we recognize the form problem, we are likely to chalk it up to being out of tune.

[Orion]

Agree, Pack.  I've been shooting sticks for more than 50 years.  Have shot overspined arrows for just about all of that time and have really never had a problem with tuning.  Of course, I shoot mostly wood, and once one knows the preferred spine, there's not much to it.

Over those years, I've also shot with and watched thousands of trad shooters.  IMO, most of the so called tuning problems are form problems.

I agree, too, that most bows will shoot a range of arrow spines at a range of brace heights and nock points.  True, there probably is one optimal combination for each bow, but most don't have good enough form to find it.  That's my story and I'm sticking to it.  Of course, no harm in doing the best one can.  

[NBK]

Ken Beck from BW said in MBB that he carries a bareshaft with him and uses it as a indicator of his form.  I think that's a good idea and evidence of which takes priority.

[KSdan]

I shot a 3-D accompanied by Ken Beck a few years back. He shot bare shafts the entire shoot.

[khardrunner]

Here's a question though...

Why is it that from 2 of my 3 bows, I have great shooting bareshafts and from the other I do not? Does my "form" change that drastically from one bow to another? I doubt it. I know that some of it likely has to do with string angles and finger pressure, but I would also think that some of it has to be tuning.

[sledge]

great point, pack.

some mornings, my arrows are tuned perfectly.

other mornings, they need SERIOUS retuning.

same arrows.  

my crusty old longbow mentor reminds me that howard hill, when shooting an exhibition, would ask for arrows from the crowd,  and still do his magic with them.

joe

[njloco]

All have made excellent points, and it's hard to add anything else, but here is my opinion, FORM, FORM, FORM!

[ThePushArchery]

There is no doubt that form is more important here, as long as the arrow is flying "decent" at first.

However the reason for so many tuning subjects is because that is the easiest thing to fix.

Say 50% of your accuracy / consistency is form related, and 50% is tuning the arrow. With a little money, a couple posts for suggestions on where to start on Tradgang, and half of a day - you can have peprfectly tuned arrows to your bow. Now you are 50% there.

Now the work begins, and this is where the majority fall short. Fixing the other half of the equation takes long hours, practice sessions, patience, days of frustration, etc..etc..etc..

But I will add, For those who have the tough part done... the form down perfect, but haven't put mych thought into the tuning side of things because good form is allowing a "good enough" arrow to fly out of the bow, I challenge you try to tune a "perfect" arrow.

Its truly amazing how much more forgiving your shot becomes.

Plus, you've already done the hard part! Why not go the rest of the way, right?!

[KSdan]

I am a firm believer in form. . .  but sometimes when I read this stuff on the internet/tradgang I think we are making it far too hard-especially for newbies and young guys.

What did we all do before the internet?  Its a basic stick and string. . .  

Like learning to shoot a basketball- get a few basics, work on them, then develop your own style. Rarely do I see two guys shoot a basketball the same.  And frankly, most folks just want to play a decent pick up game in the drive or park. That would be me.

If you want to go to the Olympics or win some competition- great! I am serious. Some guys love the techno stuff and technical practice- again if that is what you like- do it.  

But if you came on here just to put an arrow in a 3" circle at 15-20 yds.  Its really not that hard- relax and have fun.        

Its called traditional and instinctive for a reason.

[gringol]

I think form (i.e. consistency) is by far the most important.  You don't have to have olympic form, but you have to be consistent and solid form is the best way to become consistent.  Once your form is good, tuning can help get you over the hump, but imo there is no reason to spend lots of $$$ and time tuning if your form stinks.  

Trad shooting is about simple gear and your skills.  The archer is more important than the tackle.

[giff]

form is more important. you cant tune an arrow if you are shooting it differently each shot.