Miller longbow - all wood vs glassed?

[Rossco7002]

As of last Friday I find myself on the waiting list for one of Dave Miller's gorgeous bows. I've gotta say he is one of the most friendly bowyers I've ever spoken with (which is saying something as most owners tend to be pretty good guys in my experience) and we probably spent over two hours on the phone this weekend talking about his bows and general gems of Howard Hill wisdom. His knowledge is encyclopedic to say the least and it was fascinating to hear the stories behind how Howard evolved his bow designs over the years.

For those that have been lucky enough to handle and shoot Dave's glassed and all wood bows I'd like to hear your input on the differences between the two (inc how they shoot, durability, feel at the shot etc...).

Also - a few pics couldn't hurt to keep the thread interesting. ;-)

[dragonheart]

For me, I have shot one of his bamboo composite bows, concave/convex.  It was a good shooting bow.  If I was on the list, I would purchase a glass bow for the durability.  Others have had great experience with all wood bows, but I simply like the durability and longer "shelf-life" of a glass bow.  The shoot-ability is insignificant between the two, especially talking about a bowyer of Miller's talent.  Either way he will build you a great bow.

[Ron LaClair]

David has had some of the best teachers on the style and building of Howard Hill bows, John Shultz and John Lee. If I wanted a true Hill bow made the way Howard would have made it I'd have David build it.

I did, and I did. Here's my Miller all bamboo tonkin cane.

   

   

   

[Rossco7002]

I spoke with Dave about the durability of the two options and he didn't seem to think the all wood bows were any different in that regard or lifespan. That had been one of my concerns though, any other perspectives?

Ron, that bow is amazing! Love the myrtle in the riser - almost looks like mammoth ivory or something in the close up. How does it measure up against the glass bows as a shooter?

[flint kemper]

I have shot all of his models except for the Sage. If you have a all bamboo bow(no glass) built to your draw length from David,I would have no hesitations as far as longevity goes compared to glass ones provided no one and I mean no one with a longer draw than it has been built for shoots it. If someone does you are just asking for trouble in the long run. Flint

[Rossco7002]

Given the cost I suspect the bow will just end up seemlessly melded to my hand until eventually I'm just buried with it....lol. Another shooter getting his mits on it in an unsupervised manner is unlikely.

Thanks for the advice though, my draw length is shorter than most so it warrants being mentioned.

[Ric O'Shay]

I think to only issue you'd have with an all wood bow vs a glass bow is if you let anyone shoot it with a longer draw length than what it was designed for. That is if you have a 27" draw and David builds the bow to be drawn 27", then if someone come along with a 29" draw and habitually draws it to 29", the the life of the bow is severely shortened.

That said, my Expedition is under construction. PLEASE don't spend any more time on the telephone with David. I've been waiting since last September for my bow. You are keeping him from finishing it.      

[Rossco7002]

Hahaha... He did mention he was putting together an Expedition right now as a matter of fact!

Won't be long before it hits your door I'm sure - POST PICS!

[dragonheart]

Expedition is best of all "Hill" worlds!

[Hawkeye]

What is the Expedition?  I don't see that model listed on his site...

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by Hawkeye:
What is the Expedition?  I don't see that model listed on his site...

Here you go  http://bamboolongbows.com/
The link is in his "contact us" section of his site.

[Hawkeye]

Thanks, Nick.  I had not seen section!

[Rossco7002]

Ttt.... For more pics and advice (hopefully)!

[Kentucky Jeff]

I drove up to Dave's shop and picked up my Old Tom in Feb or March this past spring.  Dave spent 4 hours with me showing me his bows, and his building techniques, we shot some, and I got to hold several of his orginal HH bows.  Very nice guy and he knows a good bit about building a bow.  I also ordered an expedition.

I have a really long draw and Dave was fairly amazed when he saw me pull a 31" shaft up on the shelf.  He told me he didn't think he could build me a wood bow.  He also wouldn't let me pull any of his wood bows he had hanging out in the shop.  Was afraid I'd damage one with my gorilla arms.  

In any case.  If I were going to order a bow from this man (and I will two from him by Christmas this year--God willing) I would order an Expedition.  This is a VERY special Hill bow folks.  Its VERY close to Hill's original design and is made with a very difficult, time consuming concave/convex core that takes more time than he admits.  I asked him how many hours he puts into an Expedition and he said its at least 60-80 hours!  

There is simply nothing out there like it.  He leaves the nodes on the bamboo.  The black fiberglass cloth...its all very unique.  The handle is made very differently than the type of handle you find on HH Bows these days...its much narrower with a very defined ridge on the palm side--very much like Howard's bows.  When you look at it you think--wow, that can't be comfortable.  Doesn't look stable.  But when you hold it and draw it the light clicks and you see why he used it.  Its a VERY easy bow to hold exactly the same way every time.  Your palm finds that ridge on the shooter side of the bow the same way every time!  Genius!
 
In any case, you might not like the Expedition because it IS so different from what we call a Hill bow now.  But I promise--its a very different bow.

[Ray Lyon]

Ron came up to northern Michigan for a break yesterday and I had a chance to shoot the bow pictured above. It's a beautiful bow and shoots very smoothly.

[Rossco7002]

Ron, is that bow the split bamboo or the cc/cv?

[Ray Lyon]

Ron's on his way back home this morning. As we were grilling, shooting bows/arrows and watching my daughters plink away with a 100 year old pump Winchester .22 and their bows, Ron placed a call to Dave regarding the construction of his bow. It's a one of a kind and as I said it's a real nice shooter (even though the shelf is on the backwards side of the bow).  The finish, glue lines and leather work are all impeccable. A lot of bowyers are craftsmen, but some cross over to craftsman/artists. I'd definately put this bow in that category.

Rossco, I believe Ron said it's one or the other, but not both on this bow. Be patient, he'll be on here to answer by tomorrow when he catches up.

Originally posted by Rossco7002:
Ron, is that bow the split bamboo or the cc/cv?

I talked with David for an hour or so last night.  He said that bow is a special one (that's it, lol)...and Ray is right....Ron should fill us in.

I ordered a split bamboo and will place an order for a "special" Old Tom.  The wait is now around nine months.

[Rossco7002]

Hmmm... A mystery bow. C'mon Ron, let us know the details!

Pending anything unforeseen I suspect I'm gonna go with a string follow Hawk in the 53-55 lbs at 26 inches range. Love the look of the all wood bamboo bows people have posted up.

I figure that weight will deal with anything up to moose size north American game. Any hawk owners able to chime in with some perspective on that sort of draw weight?

[Nate Steen .]

I would stop short of moose, elk and caribou is fine with a decent setup.  These bows do shoot slower than glass bows and if you use a heavy arrow they really drop in speed.