i want to hit 'em like HH

[sledge]

or at least like john schulz did in the video.

my accuracy comes and goes when i just pull her back and let her fly.

and i draw shorter.

i find that if i draw an extra inch, i shoot better, when i settle in and stern up before release.

do i need more time at 10 yards just practicing form, without target impact worry?

or more shots all extended, and look for hold time to decrease?

thanks.

joe

[David Mitchell]

If it were me I would not be changing just to shoot like somebody else.  You should shoot the way that fits YOU and provides the best level of accuracy for you.

[frassettor]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
If it were me I would not be changing just to shoot like somebody else.  You should shoot the way that fits YOU and provides the best level of accuracy for you.

Well said    

[Killdeer]

I know that for me, practice at the bale would be of great service. Changing from recurve and locator grips to a straight Hill, as well as beginning to shoot with glasses is playing havoc with my anchor. Developing a solid shooting style and anchor will give me a firm base, and my fine mind (   :eek: )  will take care of the details once this is developed.

The trick is being disciplined enough to follow through with the program. Thinking of the sacredness of the lives of the game I pursue provides ample motivation.

Killdeer

[Archie]

Nothing wrong with wanting to improve your shooting.  There are a lot of things to learn from others.  I think Hill was a natural in a lot of ways, and he also got to the point where archery was his paying job, and was able to devote many more hours to it than you and I can.  But I think a lot of people sacrifice that kind of consistency for what "feels" good.  What most impresses me about Hill is that he could shoot very accurately at long distances.  I think a lot of us can't shoot consistently beyond 20-30 yards because our mechanics are just too poor, because we are doing what "feels good".  Also, according to "Hunting the Hard Way", Hill was against instinctive shooting, and felt it was too unpredictable.  Obviously he found something else that worked!

I regularly read Hill's chapter on aiming, because I, too, would like to "Hit 'em" like he did!

[BowHunterGA]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
If it were me I would not be changing just to shoot like somebody else.  You should shoot the way that fits YOU and provides the best level of accuracy for you.

X3

I have tried Hill's method and it just doesn't work for me. I shoot MUCH better if I draw, anchor, concentrate on my spot and release. I do not hold long, perhaps 1-2 seconds. But I also like this better for hunting personally because I am used to holding at full draw for a second. Should I need to I can hold longer without changing anything. In fact I routinely practice coming to full draw and holding there for up to a minute and then trying to make an accurate shot.

Bottom line, if what you are doing now works....why change?

[sledge]

thank y'all for the thoughtful help.

i didn't make myself entirely clear, though, i reckon.

it is my determined INTENTION to learn to shoot like that.

release at the instant i hit full draw. and hit.  some can, and do.

i am looking for advice on how to get THERE.

[sledge]

killdeer, by "practice at the bale", do you mean the close-range targetless practice HH recommended?

if so, i do a lot of that.  i got rhythm.  ;-).

accuracy...now there's the rub.

past 20, if i don't settle, i don't hit reliably.

joe

[Kamm1004]

Just curious what was Howard hills shooting and aiming style if he was against instinctive? Did he shoot gap? Something else?

[Flingblade]

Kamm,  Hill called his aiming system split vision.  His focus was on the target but he was aware of the arrow in his peripheral vision and it's relation to the target in his sight picture.  A hybrid style between instinctive and gap as I see it.

[Kamm1004]

Sounds like exactly what I've been doing without even calling it that. I have always called myself an instinctive shooter but have always been at least slightly aware of my arrow in relation to the target to where I could identify the range almost to a tee. Very interesting.

[sledge]

very cool.

threads evolve...

gfa says he doesn't want to see his arrow.  i do.

instinctive?  i love his comparison to a baseball player.
he writes of an infielder throwing to 1st,
deliver the ball there.
i like to take it a step further to a pitcher hitting a low, inside (or whatever) target.

aim?  impossible.  he looks at his target, and his mind and body, as the result of endless practice, throw strikes.

[Brazos]

I do the split vision thing.  I do think the better I get the less I pay attention to the arrow.  Similiar to shooting a shotgun opening day of dove season and the birds are covering you up.  Opening day of dove season your first box of shells go fast with minimal hits, as you haven't shot your shotgun since last year.  So then you compose yourself and make sure you are aiming using the bead, keeping you cheek weld correctly on the stock, etc.  Then you start popping some dove.  Once you get your fundamentals squared away aiming becomes natural and you concentrate less on that and more on the dove.  I still think I am aiming the shotgun but the correct sight picture becomes engrained making for quick shots to where you don't even think about it.  To me shooting a longbow is a similar sensation.  If I have laid off my longbow for an extended period of time I go thru the same steps.  First handful of arrows I fling them without much thought with little success.  Next I pay close attention as to where the point of the arrow is in my sight picture and figure out what works.  Last, after burning that sight picture in my mind I find myself looking more at the spot I want to hit.  If my aim wonders I slow down and pay a little more attention to the point of my arrow and its relationship to the target.  The fact the arrow is right out there in front of me I can't help but to see it.  My mind just knows where it should be without me concentrating on it so I can focus more towards the target.

[Rob W.]

Shoot some aerials. Lots of fun and might be the quick accurate shooting practice your looking for.


Rob

[LeeBishop]

Not everyone hits dead-on. Even with the way Hill shot he missed. Those old videos of his are heavily edited and you can tell (well as a filmmaker) where they edited around screwed up shots.

What you see in video isn't everything that happened.  

If you're wanting to shoot like Pearson, Hill, or Ferguson then you're going to need tens of thousands of arrows sent down range.

Even though Ben Pearson was running the largest archery company in the world, he still went outside next to the factory and practiced at lunchtime.

[Flingblade]

Sledge,
Here are my thoughts on the throwing a baseball analogy; not to take anything away from GFA as he has helped many and contributed much to the sport.  Take any major league pitcher in the game, put them in a treestand 20 feet in the air sitting perfectly still for several hours in temperatures below freezing with all of the clothing necessary to survive; then put an 8" paper plate at 20, 25 or 30 yards and see how many hit it with the first throw.  I will bet my next paycheck none of them would.  May be one of the reasons HH shot split vision.  HH is also quoted as saying "decide now whether you want to be a target archer or bowhunter as there is a world of difference between the two".  What David Mitchell said is spot on imo.  Shoot what works for you; regardless.

[JamesKerr]

Originally posted by David Mitchell:
If it were me I would not be changing just to shoot like somebody else.  You should shoot the way that fits YOU and provides the best level of accuracy for you.

Bingo!

[Nate Steen .]

Sledge...I use the Hill method as taught by Schulz exclusively....pm me when you have time to talk.

I have noticed that when people try to adapt the Hill shooting style via the Schulz videos and then adding some other influences, that when they think that they need to draw and release fast that the anchor point is neglected or not consistent. If one looks at Hill when in his videos when he was shooting at still targets, there was most definitely a solid anchor. The short time needed to be at that anchor was a product of years of doing the same thing over and over. As Hill advocated, do each part of the form slowly and GRADUALLY pick up speed. As far as his split vision aiming, according to Schulz, Hill did not specifically teach it to him. However, with good consistent form, I think what Hill describes is what your on board computer will do for you, he simply breaks it down to the details, because he does say that one caannot get too dogmatic about aiming and that, after time, it can be done faster than instinctive shooting, sort of a second nature..

[cahaba]

Speed will come with practice but should never overtake solid anchor and form. It takes time.   How much speed is needed in most hunting situations anyway. I would never shoot at a fast running deer maybe a fast running bunny.Schultz recommended at least a month on the bale with no target just to get your form down. Mr. Hill shot up to a 100 arrows daily with no target working strictly for form. He was doing this when he was in his 60s so he must have practiced like this all his life. This kind of practice would help most archers shoot better.
 Split vision is good for long range shooting. Arrow shoots low and you are aware enough to raise your bow for a second or even third shot. Mr. Hill shot at game at very long distances. I don't shoot at anything over 20 yards and have no need for split vision.