The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows

[PTLMG]

I like this post.  Gonna stick with my higher poundage bows.

[rmorris]

You make a great point Rob, when children who have never touched a bow are about to start shooting it is a great idea to have them pull rubber bands to get strong enough, but I believe they are training to be target archers not hunters. I think this form revolves around hunting and target archery and hunting with a bow are worlds apart. In target archery you have all the time in the world to make sure your form is perfect, you become nearly robotic. I can't recall any hunting experiences when I was able to stand up, stand up straight and double check my form. Hunting involved adrenaline and usually many variables including tight spaces, abnormal positions and sometimes unusual canting of the bow, target archery does not. When I am in a hunting position, I do not always have time to think about everything, so my anchor point better be there. Holding an artificial anchor point for 3 seconds or as long as I can is bound to cause problems in hunting situations because I know every hunting shot I take no matter the game the adrenaline makes me feel like the bow weight is next to nothing and you are telling me under these hunting circumstances I would never overdraw or come to a bad anchor if you do this technique  on a regular basis?  Please take this as food for thought before you go out and change how you shoot. I believe Rob and myself gave similar advice; Rob recommends using your existing bow and overdrawing to strengthen yourself, I recommend getting a different bow that is heavier so that you do not have to change anything that could change your shooting...If you are planning on moving up in weight you will need a new bow anyways...
Rob, these exercises that have mentioned  you say they are a "  training method",  Training method implies to me , becoming a better bow shooter not moving up in weight. Are these techniques you talk about designed to create a better shooter or move up in weight?

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by rmorris:
.... Are these techniques you talk about designed to create a better shooter or move up in weight?

ralph, yer making mountains outta mole hills, and i respectfully take great exception with yer remark that aligns the technique i've described with "target archery", or inferring that i don't know this is a trad bowhunting forum.

pulling yer bow beyond yer draw length is a super simple conditioning exercise that, without the need to spend money on special gear, allows your body to get used to holding more bow weight.  there are other advantages.  the bottom line is it's pretty much a no-brainer, been doing it for decades, it works.  don't theorize about it 'til you've tried it.  

nor am i advocating that this is the only way to build up for heavy bows.  it's just one easy technique.

[pdk25]

Sorry I don't have any secrets like the other guys do.  I like Steve's workout regimen, and Rob's seems like a very inexpensive way to get the job done.  For me, I just kept getting used bows that were 5-10 pounds heavier than what I had been shooting..  I didn't really try to go up in weight.  I just wanted to make it easier to draw the bows that I had when I was cold and stiff in a treestand.  The going up in weight was a side-effect.  After awhile, I realized that I was shooting bows heavy enough to kill a buffalo, which what I had always wanted to do.  I kept on shooting the heavier weights until I got the chance.  I now shoot them for the same reasons that I used to, but like shooting them just for their sake along.  I like knowing that I can shoot a setup that is strong enough to get through the largest boars shield, even if I don't always chose to hunt with that heavy of a setup.  I know that you should shoot the heaviest that you feel confident with, but I like to shoot all of my bows, and I don't take anything with me hunting that I am not sure will get the job done.   I was lucky to have some dealings with Leo Markert who helped me out with some bows that would be considered light by his standards, but were heavy for me.

Here is a trick you might try, although I haven't done it.  Get some light rubber  banding/tubing like people use for physical thereapy.  Experiment how long a piece needs to be to give you between 5-10 pounds at your draw when stretched, then tie a similar piece (will need to be longer for the knots) to the bowstring and riser (or make a loop for the palm of your hand) and practice drawing that way.  This way you can keep your same draw length and not have to buy another bow right away, though I suspect that doing it Rob's way would not cause any problems.  Whatever you decide to do, good luck.

[Ben Maher]

I shot heavy bows for a long time ... and occasionally break one out for some "holding exercises for strength training .

My years with heavy weight longbows and recurves led to target panic and shoulder issues ... both of which will follow me around for ever .How I wish that I'd used them more sensibly , and wityh some of the techniques described here

I love pulling big bows , and still have one for whenever I make another Buff hunt ...

But my advice would be take your time , do it properly and if possible do with a purpose in mind .

I don't subscribe to the theory that 50 lbs wil kill everything on the planet just like I don't subscribe to having to pull 70# to get the job done on most game ...

There is a happy medium in poundage , just like there is ways to achieve heavy bow pulling ... take your time, listen to your body .

What Rob was talking about is exactly the same as what Paul Brunner always alluded to for pulling big weights and its a fine technique that IMHO lets you continue shooting your curent gear without the associated potential problems of pulling big weights continually without the strength and conditioning to do so without injury or loss of shot control.

[Sam McMichael]

The timing of this thread is really ironic.Just a few weeks ago, I decided to break out my heavier bow. I used to shoot this 78# bow effortlessly, as it was the only longbow I had. I was warmed up and only shot a few arrows but my left shoulder still has not healed completely. The moral is LISTEN to these guys who say to go slow and carefully build up over time. I can almost pull my regular weight bow now, which is good because the season is close at hand.

Lately I have been doing what Rob suggests, pulling past the anchor, but the bows I use may have a limited draw, so I am careful that I only go an inch or inch and a half past my draw.  I should point out that the bows I am using are two 64 pound Schulz longbows and I draw them together at the same time.  Now I wonder who is going to jump on me for having two strings in one hand and two bows in the other, but I do it both left and right handed to maintain some muscle balance. I also do slow motion heavy butterflies on my weight bench to help keep the shoulders centered in the sockets, along with a couple of other dumbbell shoulder and arm exercises. This reminds me that I have to get back at it, I hurt my neck when out craning my neck looking through the finder scope of my dobsonian telescope and was told to take it easy for a week or so by my chiropractor, the week is up time to play again.

[gordydog]

My heavy bow rips the string out off fingers and I don't have to delicately finesse the release.

[ericmerg]

my bow just feels like it belongs to me almost natural my shoulders are so used to 72# i dont start feeling it till im holding 5+ seconds

[oxnam]

One thing I have done to improve strength is increase the number of shots in a row. Don't take breaks between the shots and you'll be surpised how much faster your muscle will fatigue versus shooting 1-4 arrows in a row and then going to retrieve them.  Combine that with longer hold times and you'll quickly build the muscle necessary for heavier bows.

[Russ Clagett]

I make sure I'm warmed up and ready, then very slowly take my time through the draw and feeeeeel my back engage and hold...then pull through...

Feel and visualize the weight and the muscles working...

and do it a bunch of times. Wears you out fast...

But then a normal swing draw is effortless.

[Mark Baker]

My advice is to separate practice from conditioning.   Shooting heavy bows can lead to a lot of problems....and Ben alluded to them, and I feel a lot of folks "overdo" their practice regimens.    

Bowhunting DEMANDS confidence in your abilities, and practice with too tired muscles CAN lead to bad habits, injuries, and a serious lack of concentration on the shot itself.  

It doesn't take shooting a hundred arrows daily to keep in shape.   I shoot every other day, and usually not more than 20 or 30 shots at a time....and I shoot them one at a time, and then retrieve each one, to get the most out of EVERY shot that I can...rather than feel like I have to shoot some predetermined number of arrows or I will "lose it".   You won't.  

Once you work up....and take your time, BTW, it's easily maintained.   Then adjust your practice to fit your goals.   Also, you will find that "rested" muscles will be able to pull more weight easier than sore ones.   So take it slow...maintain "control", and don't overdo it.  That's what works for me.

[Terry Green]

What worked for me was going up 10#s and 'working out' with it....both right an left handed.

I drew the bow to anchor 3 sets of 8 reps every other day....once I got to do that comfortable....I did the same thing but would hold at full draw for 3 seconds.....then once I could do that comfortably I'd hold to 6 seconds.

Then I would move to 4 sets of 10 the same regiment.  Only once I could do that did I start shooting the bow at targets.

Remember, that's both right an left handed.

If you are going to do it correctly, it takes time and effort and sticking to what ever program you chose.  Once you get through with your regiment and you start shooting targets, you will be amazed at how effortlessly it will be.

[Terry Green]

OK....now as to WHY I like to hunt with heavier bows.....

One, because they fit me better.  Being that since I've shot bows since I was 8, handling heavier weights seems 'normal' to me.  If I shoot a really light bow, its kind of 'blase' to me.  I almost just 'go through the motions' instead of 'getting into' the shot.  I 'get into' my alignment better and I get better performance from my release. I am more accurate with a bow that fits me, i.e. 60-70#s.

I also like to move a decent weight arrow at a decent speed, and I like to move a broadhead with a lot of cutting surface though my animals.  Being that most of my hunting here in the east is thick with not a long line of site, I want to let the air out of their lungs 'right now'.  And, I like to have two big nasty holes for blood trailing that sometimes never makes the ground.(or if it does, you can't see it)  Meaning there's a lot of side swiping of tall grass, palmettos, weeds, vines, and small diameter saplings.

I have found that shooting an arrow of around 600 grains, give or take 25 grains, moving around 180-185 FPS gets me two holes most all the time unless the off shoulder or leg bone is hit....and if that does occur, that shot will put down the animal post haste anyway, either in site or I will hear it go down.

I have never had a concern with penetration, even with 3 and 4 blades, and have had consistent pass throughs on hogs up to 300#s.  I shoot those heads through deer like they aren't even there.

[atatarpm]

This thread has been a real eye opener for me and I am glad that it was reopened.  THANK YOU Ric

[DWilhelm]

Terry is right about getting everything in line.  When I got my HH Big 5 at 65lbs, I hurt my drawing shoulder a couple of times and was worried that the bow was too heavy for me.  I stopped shooting until the soreness went away and started to do some shoulder exercises with some weights.  The exercises helped, but I soon figured out why I was hurting my shoulder.  I use the swing draw and realized that if I drew too far before getting my elbow up (ie in line) I was actually drawing with my shoulder muscle.  I made a conscience effort to correct this and now 65lbs actually feels light!

[Rossco7002]

This thread is very helpful guys! I think I'm gonna start bumping up the weight with the advice offered here.... I love a challenge!

[moleman]

Being a lightweight at 150 lbs soaking wet and generally shooting bows 65 - 80 lbs, the most important common message ive seen on here is GO SLOW AND BE CAREFUL !
Those of you thinking of shooting heavy, read the threads above and take heed, there is no such thing as overnight success, but for those with the drive and dedication to go slow and take care your goals are within your grasp.
IMHO i think that a lot of folks underestimate themselves and there ability to shoot a heavier bow, but with Proper and Careful Conditioning, most anyone can up there poundage if that is their goal.

[Rob DiStefano]

imo, most everyone has the ability to pull 60 to 80 pounds or more, but few have the desire, perseverance and dedication to attain that goal, and in a proper manner that won't cause physical harm in the process.  there is no quick shortcut to jump from a 50# stick bow to a 70# stick bow quickly.  but it is absolutely doable for most folks.  don't come without hard work and some smarts.

[moleman]

Rob, you are not wrong my friend.
In my personal challenge to go heavier i went an average of 5 lb increments, working with each until my shooting , strength and confidence led me to move on.
Ive got quite a collection of bows to show for it, but more importantly ive never hurt myself in my personal challenge to go heavy because, i went slow and let my body tell me when i could move on, or stand pat until my body was ready.