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Author Topic: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows  (Read 23549 times)

Offline Terry Green

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #160 on: August 31, 2012, 09:07:00 AM »
Thanks for keeping this on topic.....
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Offline BowHunterGA

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #161 on: September 01, 2012, 12:00:00 AM »
That is awesome to hear Mr. Lamb.Slow and steady is definitely the ticket!

Offline ericmerg

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #162 on: September 01, 2012, 12:23:00 AM »
i must say when used properly the bowfit and the hill method work wonderfully i do 10 reps every 15 minute break i get at work and spend my lunch streching and shooting mental arrows ( getting into form and mentally visualizing the bow and arrow and visualizing the arrow flying to its intended target

i also act like its a mental arrow when im really shooting
any animal you see posted that i say i personally harvested was eaten

" if you have to question if your bow will work you dont have enough bow"

Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #163 on: September 01, 2012, 09:57:00 AM »
Got the Big Five to full draw last night and although I'm not totally into my back muscles with it I'm surprisingly accurate.

Somewhere around here I've got a 70# selfbow that I may string and use to work with. That would have been the smart thing to do from the beginning.

The advantages of shooting a 600+ gr. arrow in the 175-180 fps. range are many. Extended effective ranges due to flatter trajectory, increased penetration with the additional momentum and a "rip it off your fingers" smooth release make it all good if you can truly handle the weight.

A quick story... hunting whitetails in eastern Wyoming years ago I had a nice buck walk into my shooting lane at 15 yards. I'd made a slight noise as he approached and he was alert but didn't seem to edgy.

My bow was a 75# Howatt Hunter pushing a 630 gr. aluminum arrow with Zwickey Delta 2 blade. It sent that arrow through a chrono at 203 fps.

I released the arrow at the broadside buck and he reacted violently to the sound of the string. He got turned completely away from me before the arrow hit. (I was hunting from the ground)
 
The razor sharp broadhead entered the inside of the left ham, cut the femoral artery, sliced through the intestines, the liver, lung and the top of the heart and exited in front of the right shoulder.

And that's why I used heavy bows for so long.
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Terry Green

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #164 on: September 01, 2012, 12:31:00 PM »
:bigsmyl:  

   :campfire:
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Online Charlie Lamb

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #165 on: September 01, 2012, 12:39:00 PM »
For what it's worth, the Howatt is the bow in my avatar.
   
Hunt Sharp

Charlie

Offline Rob DiStefano

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #166 on: September 01, 2012, 02:10:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Charlie Lamb:
.... The razor sharp broadhead entered the inside of the left ham, cut the femoral artery, sliced through the intestines, the liver, lung and the top of the heart and exited in front of the right shoulder.

And that's why I used heavy bows for so long.
:D     :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:
IAM ~ The only government I trust is my .45-70 ... and my 1911.

Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #167 on: September 01, 2012, 09:33:00 PM »
I had many recent injuries from a head on car accident (7 herniated discs, fractured sternum and broken bones), torn rotator cuff in my bow arm, tennis elbow in both elbows and arthritis in both shoulders.

I had to step down in weight quite a bit until I over came these injuries.

I wanted to work out to increase accuracy at first by making my current bow easy to draw and hold when hunting. I didn't start out to shoot heavy bows again.

Therefore I used this exercise with the Formaster to increase bow strength so I could be more bow strong at my current hunting weight.

I used a bow 5# heavier than my hunting bow.

  http://www.texasarchery.org/Documents/FMaster/formaster_exercises.htm  

At this time I didn't have the desire to increase bow draw weight since my hunting bow was 60# and I was working out with 65#.  

By doing this exercise I eliminated my drawing arm tennis elbow. Until I did this exercise I never realized that I wasn't drawing the bow back with my shoulder and back muscles. My tendonitis in my drawing arm was from using my fingers, wrist, forearm and bicep to draw the bow. Once I realized this, I concentrated on keeping a relaxed drawing hand, wrist, forearm and bicep and drawing with my back and shoulder. This not only eliminated my tennis elbow, it made me a much better shot. Using my back and shoulder muscles properly to draw the bow in of itself made me more bow strong and able to shoot heavier weight bows. In addition it trained me to ensure I used back tension at my anchor to prevent arrow creep and short drawing the bow.

Then I went to Bob Wesley's. Bob corrected my form with my bow arm. He taught me to keep a low and forward bow arm shoulder, a bent elbow and modified where I hold the bow in my bow hand. This eliminated tennis elbow in my bow arm and the pain in my bow arm shoulder from prior injuries. It also dramatically improved my shooting, to where I shoot better now than I did before all my injuries.

Once my form was straightened out and all the pain was gone I continued to shoot my 60#.

I had a collection of Hill longbows. I posted in the HH thread. One was a special one and was 71#. Everyone asked me how it shot. I went out and shot and it felt like it was in the 56# range to me. I thought the weight may be wrong since it was reworked by John Schulz to Howard Hills specs for Bob Wesley. I had an 80# Hill that the first time I shot gave me a cyst in my bow arm wrist. I thought I would compare the 71# to 80#. When I drew and shot the 80# it was comfortable and I was shocked I could shoot it.

I am 58 and had many injuries over the years that disrupted my shooting. I would have never dreamed that at my age and after all my injuries I could shoot a heavy bow again. In fact I can shoot heavier bows now than when I was a young bull.  

By exercising using the exercise above and correcting my form, I found that I had gotten very bow strong now. I started shooting 80# every other day 73# on off days. My hunting bow is 73# now. When I go back to my 60#, I feel that the release almost seems like a delayed reaction now.

I feel to improve your bow strength, while maintaining and improving accuracy without injury, is to first straighten out any form issues you have.

In my case I believe that if I first attempted to start drawing heavier bows, without fixing form problems I had I would have amplified the injuries I already had due to poor form.

By using the above exercise you train yourself to draw with your back muscles which automatically allows you to draw heavier bows and keep a relaxed drawing arm reducing the chance of injury.

My advice would be to take care of any current injuries first, then straighten out any form problems you may have, followed by a low and slow exercise program.

I like shooting heavy bows because I hunt, enjoy the flat trajectory and cleaner release. In my case you wouldn't believe me when I say this, but when I shoot a lighter bow my bow arm shakes like crazy, yet when I shoot heavy everything is locked in solid. I guess from all the injuries the heavy weight is the glue to keep me from coming apart at the seams.
TGMM Family of the bow.

Offline TxAg

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #168 on: September 01, 2012, 09:41:00 PM »
I can say this much....even with a bad bow shoulder, drawing the bow with proper form has made it much eaiser to draw an additional 10#.

Offline Gil Verwey

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #169 on: September 02, 2012, 10:01:00 AM »
I left one thing out in my prior post. If you look at the thread I posted it says the following - "REMEMBER - STAMINA CAN BE GAINED AND MAINTAINED, BUT NOT STORED".

This statement makes me believe that as in all sports we should maintain an exercise program to maintain and gain strength. Stamina can't be stored, so if we maintain bow strength through a exercise routine, even if you shoot 30# it will make 30# feel like 20# when you do shoot. This will make shooting more enjoyable and I believe increase accuracy and help prevent injuries at the same time.

Since I make more mistakes than most and am not the sharpest knife in the draw, I thought I would pass on something that helped me tremendously. I struggled for 10 years trying to get back my form and shooting. This exercise and Bob Wesley were the ticket for me.

I used everything to try to figure out my problems including video taping myself. It all looked good to me. The best thing I ever did was go to Bob Wesleys. When you have someone else evaluate your form that really knows what they are doing, like Bob Wesley, you eliminate years of trial and error and even after years of trial and error you may not have it right.

Plus just being around Bob is a pleaseure and a wonderful experience. He is the perfect example of a true Southern Gentleman. Bob has so much archery history behind him, you can listen and enjoy the stories all day long.

If you go make sure you take your bow with you when you get your arrows! My bow seemed to disappear every time I went to get mine.

Gil
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Offline JDunlap

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #170 on: September 03, 2012, 12:44:00 AM »
Great thread guys! I now believe I can move up to 65 or 70 pounds, or more. Very encouraging!
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Offline Terry Green

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #171 on: September 05, 2012, 09:32:00 AM »
Nice posting Gil!!!
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Offline Swinestalker

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #172 on: September 05, 2012, 07:21:00 PM »
I love to shoot my light bows and do so regularly, however, you're more likely find me with one of my 60+ pound bows in hand. Especially when hunting. The clean release and subsequent explosion is a sweet candy I cannot resist and something my lighter bows simply can't match. It is almost as if I can actually feel the transfer of energy from my muscles to the heavy arrow and finally the target.
Having done so much, with so little, for so long, I can now do anything with nothing.

Offline sweeney3

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #173 on: September 06, 2012, 07:46:00 AM »
Most of my bows are in the low fifties because that is what I am typically capable of shooting accurately, and, for that matter, what I can safely get out of the wood I like when I am making a bow.  I am working on strength to handle a heavier bow because I believe it will clean up minor release issues, allow me to shoot a heavier arrow with similar ballistic and flight characteristics, and ultimately improve performance in the event of a "whoops" shot.  It hasn't happened much, but hey, it could.  For what I do, 45-55 lbs is plenty.  But why not add a few while I can if I can?  Then I can back off in later years if I need to.
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Offline Terry Green

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #174 on: September 06, 2012, 09:25:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Swinestalker:
It is almost as if I can actually feel the transfer of energy from my muscles to the heavy arrow and finally the target.
That's ALMOST my take and 'feeling' I get.  Kinda cool seeing someone else say almost the same thing....

I can feel the transfer of energy from me, to my bow, and at release the transfer to the arrow, and the arrow transferring at impact.
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Offline Russ Clagett

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #175 on: September 06, 2012, 11:34:00 AM »
Mr Lamb...I appreciate your post, and Gil's about working up......

I had rotator cuff surgery in mid June and am now almost at the 3 month point in recovery...so I'm realizing fully how much stamina and strength you can lose in so short a time while recovering from having tendons reattached and stuff ground out.......

I am shooting bows again and it feels wonderful, but my Dave Johnson is still in the rack waiting. I'm starting to pull it ever so slightly back, increasing over time.

Won't be long and I can shoot it again....there is definitely a working up going on...trying to get that strength and stamina back, but it'll happen.

Can't wait to shoot that masterpiece again. But I will take my time, however long that takes. It's too important to heal properly and not do stupid things cause I'm in a hurry....

Offline oxnam

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #176 on: September 06, 2012, 11:48:00 AM »
I am confident that I was able to bring home the elk I shot last week as a direct result of the heavier poundage, the extra benefit of when things go wrong.

When I shot, the elk whirled to go back done the hill.  That turned my nice broadside opportunity into a poor quartering toward shot.  A lot of penetration is lost on a moving target because it causes torque and extra friction on the arrow.  The arrow still managed to push through the front of the shoulder and into his vitals.  I cringe to think of how that may have turned out with a lighter bow.  1+ for heavy bows.  We always plan for the ideal opportunities but it's nice when the horsepower is there to deal with the bad ones.

Offline Terry Green

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #177 on: September 12, 2012, 10:14:00 AM »
Eric....how many 'new and heavier' bows have you bought in the 8 months you've been shooting trad?
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Offline twistedlim

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #178 on: September 12, 2012, 07:33:00 PM »
Being a somewhat newbie here I will through in my 2 cents.  My fist recurve was 61 lbs.  Bad idea for me for a first bow but I eventually adjusted and was able to shoot it fairly well.  

I come from the G. Fred school of instinctive shooting.  When I hit my anchor point the arrow goes unless the situation changes in mid draw.  That being said Fred talked quite a bit about holding an anchor point and the tendency to relax your bow arm and the draw  collapses.  That is where the trouble is for me.  With a lighter bow I have less of a tendency to "pull through the shot"  I really have to focus on the bow arm.  I think the natural tendency with a heavier bow is to push/pull through the shot hence it is more accurate.  I am now shooting between 51 and 55 lbs which is not overly light or overly heavy for me.  It is light enough for me to hold it if I have to but heavy enough to make me pull through the shot.

 After I get warmed up the shots groups tend to loosen up and I have to focus on my form more but the first shot is what counts for me.  I focus on the first shot of every practice session.  I am not usually warmed up enough for my draw to collapse and for the most part I am happy with my results.  I am more accurate with a 60-62 lb bow but I do not feel I can shot from uncomfortable situations very well nor can I hold it long before the shot is lost.  I guess it is different for everyone but I am a big fan of Fred's push/pull theory and it has served me well.

Offline Jake Diebolt

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Re: The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows
« Reply #179 on: September 12, 2012, 09:33:00 PM »
As a light-bow shooter (50 lb), I have to say I think this thread is invaluable. I'm thankful to the mods for cleaning it up and keeping it going. While I don't think I'll ever shoot truly heavy bows (70+ pounds), the tips and strategies for moving up in weight here are excellent - I'm bookmarking this for when I want to move up to a 55 or 60 lb bow.

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