The Arguement FOR Heavy Bows

[jtwalsh62]

ttt

[Russ Clagett]

I had a personal victory last night. I haven't been able to shoot my Dave Johnson longbow since June due to having my right shoulder rebuilt. Once I got cleared by the doctor to begin resuming normal life, I started working out with the goal of routinely shooting my bow like I used to.....

It's only 81 pounds but after being able to do NOTHING

[Russ Clagett]

I had a personal victory last night. I haven't been able to shoot my Dave Johnson longbow since June due to having my right shoulder rebuilt. Once I got cleared by the doctor to begin resuming normal life, I started working out with the goal of routinely shooting my bow like I used to.....

It's only 81 pounds but after being able to do NOTHING several months....I had ALOT of strength and stamina to build back up.

Last night I pulled it through to full anchor and held it for 3 seconds.

YES! Won't be long now........

[Canyon]

Brother that is awesome!! I can't wait to see you flinging shafts through things from that bow.

[RecurveRookie]

I need every advantage I can get, more power, better penetration.  Almost there with my Maddog.

My release stinks and I'm not as steady with lighter bows.

[carpin'mark]

FMA  or Force = Mass x Acceleration, all other things being equal, faster and heavier transfers more energy.

[LimbLover]

I just switched over to heavies and I've never shot better. They made me realize how strong my back was, more importantly, how much I wasn't USING it. I was developing a shoulder issue from an old wrestling/football injury and thought poundage had something do with it. I was only shooting a 55# and thought I needed to go lower. I got a Schulz longbow from BowhunterGA and the issue went away. I recently picked up a 75#@28 which is probably pulling 85# at my draw and I'm handling it fine.

I think heavy bows can help your form.

[Sam McMichael]

I think I tend to get flatter trajectory and smoother release with a heavier bow. However, I have a shoulder injury that is forcing me to shoot lesser weight bows. Right now 55# is the max I can control.

[jkm97]

Somebody should copy and paste this thread on AT. The guys in the trad forum there would have a stroke.

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by jkm97:
Somebody should copy and paste this thread on AT. The guys in the trad forum there would have a stroke.

[bobman]

yep they wont let the bow hunters free from their BS

[arrow flynn]

Shoot the heavy weights as long as you can.

[Terry Green]

Originally posted by ironmike:
USE HEAVY BOWS

by

Tom Imler, Jr.


I have felt for some time the urge to answer some of the opinions expressed on the relative merits of light and heavy bows. Because of the weight of my bows I have become quite innocently, and believe me, quite unintentionally embroiled in this deadly feud, so duck your heads, you "light bow" boys, here it comes.

First let me be understood. There seems to be no question that a 50 pound bow will kill deer and even larger game quite successfully. However, we also know that a 22 rifle will kill big game hut is barred by law in most states because it is not considered adequate- not enough margin of safety. Why then should we be satisfied with minimum killing power when we can quite easily have better?

For some time now I have heard said and seen published the statement that a 50 pound bow will do anything a 75 pound bow will do and that it is probably even better for all round big game hunting. It is usually said that the advantage of the speed with lighter bows and arrows more than off-sets the advantages of the heavier tackle. Don't let 'em kid you, fellows. If this is true then there are a lot of physics professors over the world that have been laboring under delusions for many years.

Most of the fellows who make such statements base their whole argument on an erroneous assumption. They generally assume all men are such weak creatures that when they shoot a 75 pound bow they shake violently with exertion and only succeed in drawing 21 or 22 inches of a 28 inch arrow. I assure you this is is not the case. It has been my observation that almost any man can build up to a much heavier bow than 50 pounds. When the time comes to shoot big game the archer has no trouble drawing any bow with which he can normally shoot a full clout. He is more apt to overdraw on normal length arrows than to under- draw 3 or 4 inches, as is claimed.

Now, think for yourselves. If a 50 pound bow will throw a 500 grain arrow at a given velocity and through a given trajectory curve, then a 75 pound bow- will throw a heavior ar row through an equally flat trajectory curve (conceding, of course, proper design of equipment) - Then it logically follows that a heavier arrow traveling at the same velocity expends, on striking,, a greater amount of energy Then too, a heavy object moving at a given speed is much harder to stop than a lighter one because of its inertia. In the case of an arrow this energy is expended almost entirely in penetration. Therefore add energy and you add penetration.

Aside from the ballistics on paper, I have actually seen many big game animals killed with both light and heavy bows. What I have seen more than bears out anything that the ballistics show. There is always a fuss raised about penetration and narrow heads are advocated by some (usually those with 50 pound bows) to get penetration. I say use a heavier bow and you don't have to cut down on the width of the broadhead to get penetration. We all knew that a 50 pound bow will many times completely penetrate the chest cavity of a deer with the common broadhead. Any penetration beyond this point is useless. Death, is caused by hemorrage and the extent this hemorrhage is determined by the width of thc hole cut by the broadhead. The obvious thing then is to use wider broadheads (within practical bounds) until all the energy is expended in the job it is sent to do.

The additional penetration obtained by use of heavier equipment makes possible those shots in which the arrow goes "clean through" a big boar or a bear and keeps on going instead of just sticking in his ribs. To those of us who have been fighting for ten years to get archery hunting legalized in our respective states these demonstrations of penetration have been of tremendous varlue. I have actual slow motion natural color movies of such shots to back up my stories. The greatest archery hunter of modern times, Art Young, used very heavy bows and arrows and wide heavy hroadheads when he went after big game.

We surely haven't forgotten the lesson learned by the English en the invention of the long bow. Those who claim that weight of arrow should be sacrificed for the high trajectory should remember that the high trajectory bow was replaced by the English long bow that threw a heavy arrow. Penetration of armor was thus attained when the high trajectory bows and light arrows had proven useless. The men who came to these conclusions were not playing at archery-their lives depended upon the effectiveness of their bows. Penetration of animal flesh is similiar, in as much as it depends upon striking power.

This leads up to weight of arrow and bow. I'm afraid I'm going to shock terribly some of the "light bow tribe" by saying that in one most important point I heartily agree with their advice to the novice. The beginner in field archery should never start with a bow over 50 pounds no matter how strong he is. Many men should start with much lighter. Bad habits of form and loose are easily formed by a bow that is the least bit too strong.

But here my agreeable nature ends. Any normal man (physical handicaps, of course, are excepted) can, by starting with a weak bow and systematically building up to a stronger one, draw and shoot sucessfully a much stronger bow than he ever believed possible. Most normal men can use a 70 to 80 pound bow with ease. Why! even Joe Cosner1 with his old broken down muscles, was able to build up to a 70 pound bow and he even hits things once in a while, even if they are only gopher holes. If Joe can do it, anyone can. I'm not asking anyone to "over bow" himself. I made my 100 pound bow only for bear and for heavy penetration stunts. I'm no superman and I prefer my little 80 pound Osage bow for roving, but I use the heavier one with ease. I merely say don't be satisfied with that 50 pound how just because you won't build up those biceps and triceps. The factor of physical exercise is important in field archery, so why not get the most out of it.

Far be it from me to force my ideas down anyone's throat, so if any of you have read this far and don't agree, just stop here. There are many of archery's "old Foggies" who will "pooh pooh" this writing. There are other "old Foggies," myself included, who will say, "Boy that's telling 'em."

I address it not to any of them, but to the new fellow, who should, by all means, hear the "Heavy Bow" side of the story, which I have tried to present as logically as I am able. It's all in fun. As long as we can have differance of opinion and friendly arguments, archery will never get in a rut.

[ironmike]

i'm working on mastering 90# now, got a long way to go, have a 79# arriving this week, i routinely shoot 75# all morning long,so i know the work, love heavy bows,love diesel engines,duelly trucks,etc and so on.

[Terry Green]

One man's 40#s is another mans's 50 is another man's 60....and so on and so on.  NOT ALL MEN are created with equal physical strength.  I can shoot 70# all day....but Denny Sturgis can shoot 90...but I don't go bash Denny.  Sometimes threads like these folks post on emotion rather than fact.  One guy on the other thread said he always beat the heavy bow shooters at shoots....well, Ron LaClair won Worlds with a 110# Longbow....wonder if he would have been there if he'd have beaten Ron.

[Rob DiStefano]

one man's ceiling is another man's floor.

what terry said is gospel for me.

shoot the heaviest holding weight trad bow you can reliably control under hunting venue conditions.  

i sure wish i could go back in time and handle 65# but these dayze, and my age, i've found myself slipping down under 55#.  it's all good, do what works best for ya and the game ya wanna kill.

[Rob DiStefano]

strength training for pulling/holding bows in the 65# and up range has nothing to do with a "weight training at the gym" kinda thing.  it's all in the back muscles, not arm or shoulders.

[Terry Green]

Erik...this is an argument FOR...not against.

Thanks......    

[Skates]

Originally posted by Terry Green:
I'd like to add....it does NOT take a big, or strong, or stout person to draw heavy bows.  Its all in training and technique.

I remember guys at the gym that were serious weight lifters and body builders that competed.  They saw my 80# bow in the truck one day and wanted to have a go at it and not ONE of them could pull it even close to anchor.  When I pulled it back to anchor about 8 times they thought it was a trick.  One guy was even looking for a 'switch' on my bow.          

Now these guys were MUCH bigger than me and could bench 100 to 150#s more than me but the drawing motion is one that I've done basically all my life and one they had not done.

So, just because you are not a brute doesn't mean you can train and draw a heavy bow.  Just make sure you are smart and learn to draw the bow correctly with proper alignment and bone on bone structure and work up slowly and sensibly...and always warm up before while you are training.

Once the new weight is comfortable...that will be your new 'warm up' weight if you want to move up again.

Also, train every other day, just like weights, your muscles need time to repair and grow.

X2

[Rob DiStefano]

Originally posted by arrowlauncherdj:
I found it funny once a group of us were shooting at a friends house and one guy there had a 80 lb longbow shooting these big heavy woodies and the arc was amazing. He was quite the, this is a badge of honor kind of guy. I asked if I could shoot one through my 60 lb homemade curve and my curve shot the arrow flatter/faster even with my 1" shorter draw. Sometimes it's not always about weight but design and efficiency. Of course that burst his bubble a bit, but I was like man why you pulling all that weight when a lighter curve will gitterdun just as well? Sorry guys, I just don't get it about why someone would subject their body to such torture in his case to shoot a HH longbow. Buy a curve, drop 10-15 lb and get better penetration, flatter trajectory, and a longer joint lifespan. Jump on, pile on, whatever, not gonna change my mind.

i think yer missing the point.  the more bow holding weight you can handle EFFECTIVELY under hunting conditions, the better it is for killing game, particularly larger and more aggressive game.  lots hasta do with YOU and your trad bowhunting requirements, your physique and how much effort you can or will want to put into your trad bowhunting.