So Frustrated with the Michigan DNR

[Hawken1911]

Although I love traditional archery, I understand we are in the minority and many people view traditional bows as anitiquated.  I would full on expect a beginning archery class offered to the public to use compound bows unless stated otherwise.  Compounds are what the vast majority of people use these days, and they have all of the modern mechanical advancements that kind of go along with technology and everything else that is made easier and more efficient these days.  I don't fault anyone for taking advantage of what modern bows have to offer, and I would think most classes would want to start people off on what 'most' people will end up shooting (unless crossbows continue to take over).

That being said, does anyone know of any formal training offered in Michigan or anywhere else that caters specifically to traditional archery?  I know the youth JOAD classes use recurves with sights.  I wonder if the USA Archery adult programs use recurves.  I've seen advertisements from USA Archery about adult classes, but I've never seen an ad for an actual class being offered locally.

[elknutz]

Good post Bryan.  It's always good to take a deep breath before responding.  I'm pleased to hear the DNR is offering archery classes of any type.

[huntmaster80]

if a youngster wants to learn anything about any type of archery today, TEACH THEM!!!!!!!! Dont try to make someone shoot a stick if they have no interest in the sport, just let them shoot..

[Orion]

Pokerdaddy:  If the instructor indeed made those comments to your wife, he is unfit to each an archery course for he obviously knows very little about archery.

I understand them using using mechanical arrow launchers to introduce folks to "archery". They're readily available, inexpensive and easy to learn on. But if the instructor is so ignorant of and/or biased against traditional bows, he/she really shouldn't be teaching the course.

The only way you can weed out such idiots is to speak up. Good luck.

[Bonebuster]

I second Orions comments to the fullest...

I will also say, that a trip to any outdoor store will show you, the compound bow is now SECOND fiddle to the crossbow...If money was available, they would be teaching the class using crossbows.

[RM81]

As for the comments from the instructor, he was totally wrong and out of line.  But in all honesty, how is he any different that a lot of biased trad shooters I see talk about how people shouldn't hunt with compounds and trad is the only way to go.  To each their own.

[zipper bowss]

If the instructor does not know or understand traditional archery then it is our job to educate him, not crucify him. In his uneducated mind a longbow may be a crude weapon that is inaccurate and has little killing efficiency. In his hands it may in fact be inaccurate. That is why it is important to show him what a little skill can do with a longbow. If you get in his face and tell him how stupid he is he will only dig in and defend his self. Instead offer to do a demonstration at the class. At least explain the workings of a traditional bow and how to become effective with it. Shunning the class or the instructor will not do anyone any good.
Bill

[KentuckyTJ]

What you are not taking into account is Trad archers are a very small part of American archery today. I know that the NASP program gets bows from sponsors and they happen to be compound manufacturers. It will take a trad bow sponsor to step up to change what is used in our starting archery programs.

I do think however they should have a trad instructor on hand for those wanting to bring their own trad bows. Beware though if you bring this up be prepared to accept a new job.

[Jack Shanks]

Hawken1911,

 Our club Land O Lakes Bowmen in Fenton teaches JOAD. We provide recurve bows for those that don't have their own bow. Our shooting instruction sessions are not reserved for youth only and the club has adult recurves we offer for that use.

[owlbait]

Show up to the training and give the instructor some education about traditional archery. Just because he is certified does not mean he knows everything. If he still shows that attitude ask him who is in charge and file a complaint.

[59Alaskan]

Need to correct my post...did my homework and need to clarify that both local BSA and Ohio DNR use Genesis bows.  I apologize for this mis-representation.

For what it's worth (approx $0.02) my opinion is any ethical, respectful hunter we put in the field is a good thing regardless of gear choice.

I started with wheels and switched.  My cousin is now shooting both and starting to tilt toward trad, also having started with wheels.  His daughter, who only shoots target archery is now wanting a recurve to shoot with instead of her wheels.

[Ray Lyon]

Several years ago, I sat in on a meeting with the Michigan Natural resource commission committee members when the lead person from the NASP presented to them (I believe the man was from Kentucky).  His presentation was very informative and he discussed the use of the Genesis bow, fiberglass full length arrows and the backstops, ect.  Everything was designed around uniformity and safety.  Two interesting things I took away from the program, one of which made sense as to why the game commissions were interested in a 'generic archery' program. One, the classroom teachers who had the kids after the archery program in their gym class noted the students were more attentive and respectful than other days-attributable to the strict structure of the program while having fun. Second, many of the students went on to acquire their own equipment and then showed an interest in hunting-the reason for game departments being vested in the program.  

So where does this come into play for traditional archery/bowhunting??? Well, as many of you know, a lot of traditional archers come from the ranks of compound bow shooters, so it's all part of the trickle down theory-and as in business, you never know where your next customer may come from, so respect the potential customer and those volunteering to teach them who in this case could be the teacher/student of such a program.

[maineac]

For a lot of people it would be unethical to hunt with a trad bow.  Their lifestyle by neccssity or choice does not allow them to shoot and practice enough to really be proficient.  i have a friend I have tried to convert, but he does not have the time in his life to shoot daily.  He can pick up his wheels and hit a quarter at 50 yards after a few minutes of practice.  For him it is more ethical to hunt with the compound.  I don't think the instructor has met enough trad archers to have a different opinion.

[Bjorn]

It is what it is................let's face it they have to offer what most people want and what they are capable of teaching.

[thumper15]

I'm sure not all of us here started with traditional bows either, so I don't see a problem with it. It would be nice if they would show people what the difference is between compounds and traditional. That way they let the shooters decide which interests them more.

[Jon Stewart]

Back in the 60's my mother taught archery in some of the grade schools in  the Public Schools and in the 70's I taught archery in adult education courses all using non-mechanical equipment(traditional equipment).

This has all gone by the wayside much like the pencil and paper has been taken over by the computer.

It all starts at home and parents need to step up and introduce  their children to the old ways. Of course thats if the parents know the "old ways" . I was fortunate enough to be brought up in an archery rich environment in the 60's and passed what "little" I know on to my son and grandkids.  

To pokerdaddy, I would suggest checking with local clubs for help.  I am sure someone out there would enjoy teaching archery.

[JamesV]

If the projectile has feathers/vanes it is ARCHERY. Choosing to hunt with traditional gear is a choice and the next guys choice should be respected. If you choose a horse and buggy for your mode of transportation don't be mad at me for having a Silverado.

[Geezer]

Here in CO my closest friend has introduced the NASP program to many schools.  If it wasn't for the support of the program many thousands of kids would never have been introduced to the sport.  To the young, a bow is a bow...and now that their interest has been tweaked, its our job to show them the other side of archery.  For many of us the move from trad to compound and back to trad is a progression of thought and satisfaction in what we use.  Just as in rifle hunting where (most of us) we move through the various layers of maturity, so is it with young archers.  NASP, Hunger Games, the Olympics...folks, we have the attention of a large audience of new shooters right now.  Lets take advantage of this and support any program that puts any bow in their hands!

[NBK]

We traditionalists will always be the minority akin to an ember being carefully carried to start another fire.  Examples of success and excellence like Jerry Gowen's hunting proficiency posted by Mike Yancey, Guru's young son Cade pushing himself to higher standards, the Wensel/Mitten productions standing in stark contrast to modern horn porn television, and many many more are the air that breathes it life.  If we wrap the ember too tightly with an elitist's perspective we miss the chance to start another fire.  At some point each of us will have the opportunity to introduce an archer to a traditional bow and the outcome will mostly be determined more by our sense of inclusion.
Pokerdaddy, I understand your sentiment because recently I checked into the NASP program here in Wisconsin and saw that they all use Genesis bows, so I too am not sure how my daughter Kate with her longbow is going to fit in.

[JCJ]

I am the Hunter Recruitment and Retention Coordinator for the MN Department of Natural Resources.

We started our Archery in the Schools Program in 2004. Since that time we, and our NGO partners have invested significant funding to train teachers and provide grants to schools interested in starting a program.

Today we approaching 400 schools and 160,000 students shooting archery as part of their school curriculum.

While this is great and NASP has done more for goodwill towards archery than anything in the history of the sport if this is all we do, we will be missing an incredible opportunity to increase interest in archery and bowhunting.

To really maximize the potential of this opportunity we need the continued support of existing bowhunters, bowhunting organizations, and archery clubs. Most importantly, we need the buy in from their members.

These folks have to help us, help all these new to archery folks (NASP youth and others) continue their archery and possibly bowhunting journey.

This will require all of us to sacrifice some of our own time, including hunting time, and energy.

Once you get past the initial Awareness, Interest, and Trial stages of the recruitment process in which programs like NASP or the various "Learn to Hunt" or "Mentored Hunts" that pretty much all states are carrying out, the work of recruiting a person to hunting becomes a one-on-one, time intensive process that often takes several years of effort.

And even then if the new hunter does not go back home to a social support network that is supportive of their interest in hunting, they still might not stick with the activity.

In essence we need to try and create a surrogate for the recruitment process and social support system that many of us went through at the elbow of our father or friend as part of a family or culture of hunters.

If anyone wants to gain a better understanding of recruitment and retention process and the research related to this topic see this link:

 http://www.responsivemanagement.com/download/reports/Future_Hunting_Shooting_Report.pdf

Have a great weekend.