In search of Bigfoot!

[Doc Nock]

The Bow
Naturally, all good things take time.  When the bow was ready to send, I’d gotten enough pictures along the way to be totally freaked out on it’s looks…but would it perform???

On arrival and assembly, it was truly such a thing of beauty, I hated to break the spell by stringing it and getting down to business, but I invested in a “TOOL” and the goal was for it to work with me.

Kirk finds a brace height on each bow before he sends it. He recommends that height based on shooting dozens of arrows before it’s even gotten the final finish sprayed on!

I had some domestic chores to finish up...but got to shoot a bit before dark...

I have my "go to" bow that has an ultra large grip. That was the best I could get in the past...big to accommodate my big paw.

This riser was a bit less huge, but the angles were precision ground to suit my shooting form.

Well now... soon as I get the pics loaded up, more to follow...might be tomorrow, but rest assured, this sucker is as functional as it is beautiful!

Some of Kirk's pics of the finished bow by way of review...better'n my lousy pics:

   

   

   

   

[SKITCH]

Beautiful bow Doc.  Kirk seems like a great guy!!  I will own a Bigfoot bow some day.  

I hope you did not scare the post man!!  Sounds like this bow helped you revisit your "little kid" days!  ha ha.

Have fun and let us know how you like it! (as if that's going to be a problem.)

[SAVIOUR68]

Guys Billy is telling the truth of the Bow Accident,I was there at the same hunt with Billy and Kirk when this happened. At first I thought BILLY was pulling our leg til I saw his bow and then I stood there speechless.

[larry]

52 Doc, and there's nothing like a good fast, to help clear the mind and focus  :D    

[Doc Nock]

Larry,

My buddy grew up in that NE NY town with the horse track and the theater and the "cathartic springs"...can't remember the name off hand...

You should try the water there if you want to have a total body cleansing!   :rolleyes:    

[Sixby]

Billy, Thats quite a story. I did that to a rifle on a coyote hunt once. Never to a bow though.I dearly love Bro. Kirk but I bet the good Lord protected that bow from being a bunch of splinters more than the epoxy and glass and carbon and Kirks great workmanship in this one.
In other words , you were blessed to not have your bow broken.

Owlbait. Kirks bows will last as long as any bow built using high performance materials. I doubt that a carbon bow built by any builder in the world will hold up any longer. Including mine./

God bless,
Steve

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Don't let old owl bait ruffle your feathers Billy. every thread that comes up on one of my bows he's gotta stir the pot a little bit for some reason....

but..... he brought up a good subject that I'd be glad to address... The finish is important on a bow and there are many different kinds out there that bowyer's use for various reasons.

Self bowyer's are real fond of natural oil finishes such as linseed oil, and tongue oil. These are beautiful long lasting finishes, but need yearly maintenance, and wax to keep them looking good.

Then you have True oil. This is a product that is very popular for self bowyer's, gun stocks and glass bows alike. It has a harder finish that builds up in layers, where the natural oil finishes are more of a penetrating finish the soaks into the pores. the true oil has a way of really bringing the colors out of the wood, but unfortunately it scratches easily..... it's a high maintanance4 finish too if you are tough on your bow. but steel wool polishes it out pretty easily.

Then you have all the different epoxy finishes out there like auto clear coats, T Bird, and many other marine finishes that i won't even try and list. These are a very hard finishes that resist scratching more than either the natural oil, or true oil does..... but... they don't have the natural look to them when they are done. in some cases these epoxy clear coats look like a beautiful piece of wood that is covered in plastic. it's definately the toughest stuff out there, but once you do scratch it or dent it. it requires a lot more work to refinish it. it also can yellow with age.

A lot of bowyer's use a Fuller-Plast finish. Its been around for a long time, but from everthing i've heard it's nasty stuff to work with, so I've never gone there myself.

My favorite is is a high grade water resistant conversion varnish called "Krystal".... like the name, it goes on crystal clear and stays that way. it's much easier to work with than the epoxy finish too. The best part about this finish is that when you get it scratched up, it easily polishes out with 0000 steel wool and a cotton rag..... durability and longevity of any finish is totally dependent on the amount of abuse the bow takes, and weather conditions..... I've totally thrashed my hunting bow and it lasted a couple years before it needed some polishing up.
after year 3, i finally decided to refinish it. but it still wasn't in bad shape at all for what i put the thing through....

I have used all of the finishes above, and still do upon request,  with the exception of Fuller Plast. I won't touch that stuff.

hopefully this is helpful....  Kirk

[owlbait]

I've been around bows and bowyers for awhile, and I know how much work goes into R&D, and I've heard Kirk say he hasn't built as many bows as some of the big names. So, it doesn't seem there is a BIG sample out there yet. My question on finish was an honest one based on my personal observation. Another bowyer I asked about his finish doing the same thing(not just a grip issue) changed his finish procedure. Made a difference. Kirk's reputation is to push the envelope. It's a fair question to ask how longlasting those pushes work. I'd dare say that Kirk's bows this year are ahead of the bows last year, so I'm asking for comparisions of recently built bows. Maybe Kirk wouldn't take an order from me because I "stir the pot", but every question/statement I ask is based on what I is see or percieve from Kirk's and others posts. If Kirk really is on the cutting edge, then it will be proven over time with more anecdotes then from his buddies. If there is some questions instead of constant back patting, it should help not hurt, hopefully.

[katman]

Owlbait, it sure came across differently in  your original post the way I read it. I mean I thought out loud whats this guys problem. Everyone is entitled to there opinion of course and I think I understand yours.
 
Sorry to get sidetracked guys/gals, now back to topic please, Doc Nocks bow.

She is a beauty and will be awaiting your thoughts after getting to know her better Dave.

[Doc Nock]

YOu make great points, Mike...

All but your conclusion that those of us who "support" Kirk are "buddies."

Did you ever stop to think that after some of us who've been around the block a few times, speak highly of Kirk because the experience is defintely a totally different one from the "big names" who have more bows "out there?"      

I met kirk on line. he responded to my very personal detailed history of bowyers and custom (?) bows and my need for something "more."

Thru that process, we stepped on one another's toes more than a few times, but he's smart enough and secure enough in his work that he could tell my challenges were from the heart...as I would wish to believe are your own.

Difference is that I paid my freight and then challenged the devil out of Kirk to "prove to me" what he said...and by golly, he DID prove it!

He sent me videos of top contenders' limb designs...showed me how some continue to oscillate till morning while his stop dead in their tracks... transferring more energy into the arrow.  Not once was there a whisper of who built the "other limbs". That's integrity!

For those who look for such character issues, they are found in some, not so easily in others. We all have opinions like body parts!  

I met Kirk briefly at B'more...he did spend an hour with me taking videos, but his openness, honesty and candor, even to the point of calling BS on various of my beliefs about arrows and such, built a "TRUST" in him that lingers.

Buddies? I'd hardly say so. Don't know the man well enough, but in the months we've exchanged a lot of emails and phone conversations and that bit of personal face time, I've come to trust, respect and believe in the man's talent, his heart and his dedication to never quit and to make the best product for the customer.

If other bowyers who built ME bows shot hundred arrows thru my bow before delivery...they didn't mention it. I never got a suggested brace height..nor a nock point set that so far, with Kirk's bow, WORKS!

Buddies? I don't think that is a wise choice of words...and as a school teacher you know vocabulary is powerful stuff.  Respect? You bet!

I know several bowyers well enough to "like them as people" but I've not seen the level of dedication to go "above and beyond."

If that sounds like a commercial, so be it. I'm impressed!

If there is one thing I know it's economics and ROI..this man couldn't give a flying flip if he's making money as much as if he's making a great product with a bunch of solid research behind every aspect of it.

Kirk not only "pushes the envelope"...which to my reading suggests he's on the cutting edge. If I've portrayed that his efforts are just "far out experiments" ,i.e, "cutting edge" without substance, in my missive, I've failed miserably.

What I would have preferred to have communicated is that Kirk doesn't take what is "accepted belief" and build on THAT WITHOUT testing it first!

I'd prefer to think of that as going back and building a solid foundation on "known testing" and proven factors, not presumptions and hearsay or what other more established craftsman believe is true.

I don't mean to sound defensive, Mike, but I made my living for a lot of my life with words...words are power, and some choices tend to paint pictures that need to be challenged.

I made the point early on that I choose Kirk because he is "data driven"... BS walks and testing talks in my world.

Cutting edge be damned.  Testing  what is believed "truisms" takes some courage and cajones... if one finds that the status quo has holes in it, then sure...I guess you could call that "cutting edge"...but not as in "radical departures from tried and TESTED & proven stuff.

I have 3 bows in my new bows draw range. This bow is smoother, lighter in "felt draw" and yet it zings my standard 585 grain EFOC arrows better than my others who clock in with higher draw weights....oh...and it actually FITS my hand.

Anecdotes from a buddy?[/i] I think that is what rankles a bit...I'm not his buddy. I've become a "fan" working with the man and experiencing an interaction like I've never known with any other "custom" bowyer. I paid for that experience and that opinon. Thank you very much!

For true and certain, there is not enough of my $$ to go around and experience ALL the bowyers out there who are superb! And perhaps you've had similar experiences, but it feels rather degrading to relegate my experiences to being his "buddy" and "back patting". I take exception to those particular thoughts in print.

My experience with Kirk generates respect...and a bit of loyalty when the proof is in the pudding and I have shot the pudding and like the results!  

Back patting? There is an old expression I'm tempted to drag out...it ain't braggin when it's truth!

   To each his own. You have your obvious favorites from your many posts.

I took a "wait and see" approach...sifted and sorted and let the chaff be separated from the grain.

God bless America and the free enterprise system.  Your dollars speak as loudly as mine and the rest who have paid the anty and found superiority! Amen.

Ply your dollars wisely but please don't denigrate my learned experiences to some sophomoric "fan club" or 'buddy' experience.

Thank you for clarifying your position in a much shorter reply than my own... but again, words are power and you used some powerful, if not potentially mis-interpreted vocab in your post that I hope I've set straight with some careful and respectful counters.

[owlbait]

Wow Doc. I didn't even have you in his "buddy" column! I was looking at "new customer, waiting for an unbiased review, column".  :D  I apologize if I have offended you or anyone else. Good luck with the bow, many straight arrows, and heavy buck poles to you. I figured I was 12 months from being able to "try" to get on Kirk's waiting list, with another 12 months to pay for a nice retirement gift for myself. Hopefully the reviews continue favorably.

[Crash]

Well stated Doc, makes me want to call Kirk and order one myself.  Probably shouldn't do that though, doghouse isn't big enough for me and the dog.  When are you going to get into more pics and a review of how it shot for you?

[Zradix]

Good Luck with your new bow Doc.
She is a beauty!

   

[Doc Nock]

MIke,

There were just a few choice words that didn't sit as well as some...but I don't know you're intentions, only what I read.  As I wrote in the above response, I trust your words were from your heart, but there were a couple of phrases in there I just had to take exception to and offer a respectful counter.

I hope you can find in a bowyer what I feel I've found in this man's work and attitude: customer respect, honesty and an uncompromising desire to provide the best bang for the buck.

We should all be so lucky.  You and I are good, Mike! :)Thanks for your candor!

Crash,

I got to shoot her this evening some...

I don't like effusing until I can truly "wring out" all the goodies.

My arrow nocks have been sanded down to fit another bow's skinny string well...

This string that came is not 8 strand, but 10...so the arrow nocks were really tight... and any of us who've played long with tuning know how that messes with results!  :(

However, the bow shot very well... super smooth...way smoother at a higher draw weight (47.23#) vs. some others that I have that are carbon/foam core of another breed at 45# and pull WAY harder... And it was faster by the eye (no chrony for me)

So my "reports" will lack the "data" I like...more about perception...

I might have to take some big risks and open some nocks further for real testing in the next day or so... which I dislike cause the GT nocks have had bad press anyway...    :eek:      

A couple of my nocks that are more 'relaxed' zipped into the kill zone like lasers...

I can't believe how this grip feels! Narrower than the big fat corn cob grip I have in my current "go to" bow...which works relatively well if I do a lot of fiddling...

But this? hehehehe...  well, let me wring out a few more arrows with the right nock size and see if I can share some things with less variables involved.

Zradix,

I'm tickled to death this is so pretty... I love wood and wood grain. But the grip was my goal and that...from my 30 round experience at first 15, then 20, then 25 yards, even with seriously tight nocks, was just wonderful.

Thanks all, Mike included.  I wanted to do a good job portraying how impressed I've been with how Kirk approaches his "custom" work as though it truly is "one bow at a time" and he works hard and has insights I've not seen in a while.  There are so many bowyers out there of top quality, but what I experienced in MY past was "SURpassed" in working with Bigfoot Bows!

Anything less or that comes across too sappy would be all on me!

I will try to provide a more objective over view with less superlatives, prior to my departure on Thursday...but lots of work between here and there!

Thanks to all so far for reading along!

[Steelhead]

Good luck with your bow Dave.I am glad you like it.Its a looker.You deserve it bubba.

Take care and have fun with it!

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Please let me know when you want some "data" Doc. besides putting a 100 arrows through that bow getting a feel for the ol girl, i ran it through the chrono all set up for hunting, with silencers on the string using fingers...

I'm still struggling with a few loose ends on my high tech shooting machine. So i didn't go there on this bow. Wood working and building things have common sense problems i have no problem seeing... doing diagnostics on electronic load sensors, digital micrometers, and data acquisition for a computer interface, is out of my league....

Hopefully the engineers who said they would help me through this will find time to do so in the near future..... Kirk

[GRINCH]

I'm happy for you Doc,beautiful bow,congrats.

[Sixby]

Owlbait, You might consider that term buddies was not applicable until these fine gentlemen bought and shot Kirks bows and experienced his un-believeable communication with his customers.

I build custom bows and am a competitor and personal friend of Kirks. However when it comes to the communication part of this business I am a lame duck compared to Kirk. I do send pics , Kirk sends vidios. I communicate continually with my customers. Kirk spends hours with them. In fact I can honestly say I don't see how the man has time to build those beautiful bows he builds. I think he might clone himeself.
One thing I have heard allmy life is that you have to taste the pudding to judge how good it is. These men are eating it and enjoying it. Ask Billy Ship how many different kinds of bows he has owned and shot. or ask Doc / You are not talking about novices that are going through the latest bow craze. I own a Bigfoot bow and I can honestly say it is the only bow on my rack or ever has been on my bow rack or in my shop that I  would not want to race for titles.'
God bless you all, Steve
God bless you all, Steve

[Doc Nock]

I think we can move back to the bow now...

My go to bow has a very big grip.  It's 2" wide at the widest part of the palm swell and it's 2.5" from belly to back below the throat.

That massive size helped me be able to control torque, but I'd still occasionally get a feather cut on my bow knuckle.

Kirk posted a video of my shooting and hand position.  He then posted a video of the "why" and the "How" he altered this bow's grip to accommodate my hand position to change my hand location to avoid the problem.

This bow's grip is much more svelte.  It measures 1.75" wide and 2" deep, belly to back below the throat.

I put the bow together...carefully.  This was almost a reverent moment...after all the pictures, all the back and forth conversations and emails... it was really here!    

The tips are a bit different than what I'm used to on the bows I've owned... They're built-up on the back side... I wouldn't even TRY to slip the string loop up over them.

 

I used the recommended 'saddle' style stringer.

Ok...I had food on the stove and cook time was critical, but I had to shoot it.  

Grabbed an arrow and out the back door...I have an old, old "BLOCK" set up for close shots.

I loaded the bow, put tension on the string and did what Kirk suggested to get the feel and have it settle consistently.

First thing I noticed was that this grip was a lot "smaller" than my big ole one.

We don't have a "quizzical" looking GUI face to post up...

Next as I put pressure on the string, I noticed the stippling... didn't hurt...not like checkering, but I did "notice" it.

Kirk had called and talked me thru prepping the bow, over the weekend. He mentioned that with the correct grip angles to accommodate my wrist rotation, the grip didn't need to be huge...it would sit and fit.

It did! But it DID feel different. Kirk also pointed out that having "desk jockey" hands (my term, not his) I might "notice" the stippling but unlike checkering, it wouldn't abrade my skin!

So I'm prepped.

I pull back to anchor.

First thing I notice is that Kirk must have missed weight...This drew too easily but no, I saw the scale at 47.23#... (asked for 47-48#)

I'd driven some ways weeks back to shoot another man's 47# Sas.  I had my Go to Bow at 45# and his 47# Sas...and his Sas spit my arrows fine but also "felt" a lot lighter in draw than my bow.

Time to let the arrow fly...

[owlbait]

My apology has been sent to Kirk and I want to apology to the rest of you for my abrasive posts. I'm a dickhead! Doc's bow is an amazing piece of work. If it"shoots as good as it looks" it will be tremendous. Typically, price and wait time has never been a concern for me, except those last few days(eh Doc?)For some reason I had priced Kirk's bows and wait time out of my league and unfairly judged them. So, Doc-she's a beauty. I thought those wood combos would be too busy, but Kirk nailed the melding off those, and I didn't even know he did stippled grips. What a great custom option. Good luck to ALL the Sasquatch owners and friends, and good luck Kirk!