In search of Bigfoot!

[Sixby]

Kirk, That is an awsome job you did on that grip. Congratulations on it.

Godbless, Steve

[GRINCH]

Well Doc looks like the deer are in trouble,good luck.

[Doc Nock]

I tried to "settle into" both bows when I pulled them back to full draw sans arrow (Lee would let me use an arrow...can't understand that!)  

It almost appears in the top pic of my "other" bow that the shelf is even angled forward instead of level...but that could just be me without an arrow on it or the angle of the pic...

The shelf is above and away from my knuckle and yes, the thumb is noticeable in it's different location. Surely does seem to work!          :D

[Big Ed]

I got to meet Kirk at Baltimore this year. Top notch guy for sure!!!

[Doc Nock]

So...Ed...you're typing.  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by Sixby:
Kirk, That is an awsome job you did on that grip. Congratulations on it.

Godbless, Steve

This one was rather challenging Steve. I'm really glad i had an opportunity to get some time to watch Doc shoot several different bows and get some film. This old boy has paws on him like a bear.     very similar to your paws bro...  

He had a couple different risers at Baltimore that were very different in shape, both large and small circumference at the throat, and one had a huge palm swell and was very wide through the width of the throat.... i even had him draw my bow a few times watching his rotation and vertical wrist angle....

After our time together Doc asked me what i thought he needed in a grip to fit him well, and i told him flat out i didn't know yet, and  I'd need to study the video before determining that.

my first thought was extra width in the base of the grip, with a larger palm swell, with about 5 degrees more rotation..... the problem with doing that was it was putting the heel pressure off center too much and pushing the bow to the right upon release, instead of straight forward....

after tinkering around some with a mock up riser i finally found the right angles that kept the thumb pad pressure in line and allowed his natural wrist rotation without putting too much down pressure on the thumb ledge. i had to offset the forefinger depth to pull it off and go a wee bit higher with the shelf. i didn't do a large palm swell because i honestly think that was part of Doc's problem getting too much pressure offset to the left.

I thought you might appreciate that Steve. kirk

[coaster500]

Very well thought out and wonderfully executed Kirk. I don't think I've ever read a thread with as much detailed information as this.

Congratulations Doc!!!

I will be stalking your posts and watching to see how your relationship build with your Bigfoot  

 

[Doc Nock]

Kip,

You sayin I got big FEET?                

Thanks.  I wanted folks to get to see what I've gone thru in the past, what frustration I've had to find the right riser/grip, and the luck in finding someone who understood and knew HOW to diagnose and treat the issue.  I can't be the only person out there who struggles with standard type grips... maybe others will find some direction!
 
I know that Kirk couldn't have made much money and likely, with the time spent in analysis and mock ups and my pestering, LOST money on this deal...

Kirk, my paws ain't THAT BIG...I got wide and deep palms and short fingers, nose, toes, n'  ...      :rolleyes:  

As I've said often, I'm sure there are many incredible bowyers out there... and the more that exist, the more "LUCK" it takes to find the right mix of talent and personality to work with your individual needs.

First,I got a beautiful and SWEET bow..., that really feels like it likes my hand... and I've not even STARTED to wring out it's potential yet...and, second, Kirk still talks to me! That is a double bonus!

He and I can both light up like throwing a lit match in a bag of sparklers, but I found his heart for building a truly custom bow and meet each customer's specific needs, to bring us together and work well together.

Communication can sometimes be a very fragile thing...     :eek:

[PArcher]

All sounds and looks great Dave! I wish i could see that when you come up this weekend but alas I had to go back to school. Hopefully I'll get back and you'll get up sometime and i can see you make some meat!

Caleb

[Doc Nock]

What Kirk didn't mention in his observation is that when I shoot, no matter how I hold my bow(s)or my shoulder or grip...the bow(s)would "recoil" down and to the right to the 5:00 position...

I figured it was just a weak shoulder or something... You saw Lee's quick couple of videos. the bow is NO LONGER jumping down and to the right!

Kirk went into detail above about how the extra width and palm swell I felt was needed, on close examination of my shooting...and shoot different dimension risers I have, all pointed to my putting too much, how did he say it was putting the heel pressure off center too much and pushing the bow to the right upon release, instead of straight forward....[/b]

I forget honestly what Kirk told me up front he charges for "custom grip design" but in honest retrospect, given the time and effort he puts into it... it's one incredible deal right there!

Anyone who is particular with grip issues, or has some sense they MIGHT have a challenge, you might consider getting on Kirk's waiting list.  You give him the videos he wants, from angles he requests, hand tracing...you can count on being happy---like me and all the rest!

Everyone I contacted who had experience with Kirk's grip work, told me not to worry, this guy was the real deal..., but hell, I was still wondering. It's only natural. But I did come to the sense early on that, with the level of effort that he was investing,...if he COULD NOT get my grip issue worked out...it could NOT be fixed by anyone else either!

I've not learned all this svelt pretty woman has to teach me, but I know I'm in good hands to let her "lead" for the next few dances!        

Caleb,
Good to see you on here. Sorry to miss you li'l buddy...but school is important. We will get together thru the season when I get up and you're home... Count on it...

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey Dave, I appreciate all the high praise, but i gotta tel you this straight out. You've got more time in to typing your post here than i did shaping your grip....        

I do charge $75.00 to shape a grip to a customers specs. This covers my time looking at photos and determining the right angles, and checking the dimensions as i go. Video isn't necessary at all in most cases, but it is always better than still photos....

The actual time taken to shape the grip itself takes no longer than any other risers i shape..... So please quit worrying about me making ends meet here, and enjoy the consistency that custom grip is going to give you.

Something else i should mention here. i only charge for a custom grip shape if I'm doing something to specifications. If a customer picks out a photo on my web site of a riser style, tells me he wants a medium high grip & gives me a circumference at the throat they prefer. I don't consider that a custom grip if it's within the 4.75" to 5.25" range. Something larger or smaller than that may require a thicker riser, or looking at extra reinforcement options for a real small grip. That may kick it into a custom grip category depending on type of wood used in the riser and poundage.

For you guys interested that don't mind looking at my ugly mug, I've attached some video of what goes into shaping these risers. I do a lot of these videos to help out guys that are novice bowyer's just getting started.


Just click on the photo's below to start the film.

   


   


   


   

[stringstretcher]

Great videos Kirk.  Thanks for taking me along.

[Doc Nock]

Thanks for the reassurances, Kirk.

I guess given the time just in communication back and forth, then what I KNEW you had to have put into reviewing footage... that I KNOWyou put in a good bit of time---before the shaping.

One thing for sure, once the gauntlet was thrown to get me a grip that fit, you made it so!

All I know is all the jabbering I've done in the past about bows, didn't get me something that fit like you did.  Thank you!

Good to read that most people's preferences don't involve what my goofy situation required. I still appreciate your help and the result! Whaoo!

[Doc Nock]

I got some new strings coming with smaller serving to fit my GT nocks.

While I was away, I let a few folks with shorter draws shoot my SAS with my and their arrows.

Then watchin theirs fly, I had to TRY them myself.

I'm shooting .400 spine GT's loaded up. They were shooting .500 spine GTs with 50% lighter inserts and the same weight head...

Dangnabit! They flew better, tight nocks and all, than mine...

Mine show the slightest "wobble" out around 15 yards away... then hit where I want...their shafts flew dead nuts!

Here we go... C'mon strings!!    

[sticksnstones]

Well all of this happened while I was out hunting, but it looks like things are coming together!

Doc, she looks like a million bucks! It was great to see Kirk's analysis of your hand position and to see how he worked the grip for you in that video. This is why it really wouldn't do you (or anyone) any good to shoot my viking sized grip and 32" draw limbs. I bet I couldn't shoot your bow anywhere near as good as I could shoot mine!

Mike, I wish I would have had mine at Elm Hall for you to see but I was on that osage selfbow kick. (It's OK, I'm pleading temporary insanity.) I've got over 10k arrows on my Sas now and it still looks great and is shooting the same FPS it was when it came out of the box.
Next Elm Hall mine will be over a year old      

Not to hijack, but I've got a little personal celebration for me tonight! I outshot my all time best round by 14 points tonight with my Sas! At one point I hit 3 Xes in a row and got a loud verbal ribbing from the range owner. At that point all the guys with wheels stopped shooting and watched me drill the 4th bullseye. Of course it got creepy quiet as I loaded my last arrow and I shot it way right into the 3 ring. Still, 23 out of 25 was another personal best too!
     
Thom

[Doc Nock]

Thanks for the comments, Thom.

And sharing such a coup as you had on the range, for any stickbow, well, that is pretty amazing and not hijacking a thread at all!

I loved the part about it getting creepy quiet when the wheelboys were watching intently...

Amazing feat with just you and a stick and string, eh?! Kudos to you--- and the bow!

[Red Beastmaster]

Dave,

Thanks for the heads up about this thread. Reading it helped me kill a half hour here at work. LOL

Glad you finally found one that fits. As most people say, including me, "It's all about the grip". You could shoot a broomstick accurately if you just had the right grip on it.

Beautiful bow and I'm sorry I won't see it in person next week, but I definately want to shoot it next time.

I'm happy for you..............maybe now you won't be spending quite so much time on the wrong side of the target!

Dave

[Doc Nock]

Originally posted by Red Beastmaster:
Dave,

.......maybe now you won't be spending quite so much time on the wrong side of the target!

Dave

Won't that be special[/i]  

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Hey there Dave,

Sorry this took so long.   :rolleyes:  

But I found the limb lay up photo's for a triple carbon lay up i did for Lyonel. Your's is identical except the center lam (the red stripe) is uni-weft material instead of carbon.

There are 11 lamination's in your limb there counting the clear glass on belly and back.

 

 

[Doc Nock]

OMGosh! The more pics of the build I see, the more amazed I am at these "simple sticks and strings"

I have a video from the Fred Bear Theater and the ending of it is a tour of the plant and you get to see bows built...

Not quite the effort and technology as there is now.

Thanks, Kirk. I didn't see that before... just amazing! 11 laminations... Someone asked me what that red line stuff was...Uni-Weft.

No flippin idea what it is, but I can impress the hellouta them and pretend I know!