Discussion..how sharp is sharp enough ?

[ChuckC]

Can I hear some thoughts on this topic ?  I know, I know...scary sharp.  But really.  A lot can be said for "razor blade, or shaving" sharpness being superior, but as much can be said regarding durability of a "not quite as sharp....but still sharp" blade.  

Remeber, you are taking this blade and making it pass thru meat at a speed in excess of 150 feet per second, which is way different than lightly cutting thru a rubberband or some hair on the back of your hand.    Maybe we can add in discussion about hone sharpened, vs file sharpened  vs serrated blades.  Anyone up to proposing some tests that the Gang can perform ?  

It is almost season....timely discussions I think.
ChuckC

[O.L. Adcock]

Chuck, Doctors and vets have spoken out loud and clear that razor/shaving sharp is the way to go and after 40 years of bowhunting I agree. Oh sure you'll some chine in about serrated, file.... ect when the fact is you can kill them with a field tip........Eventually...So examples of them working doesn't mean much. Besides you can get a filed edge to shave....O.L.

[Whip]

To me, it sure seems like there is no such thing as too sharp.  Some are better at it than I am, but I try hard to get them as sharp as possible using first a file and then diamond stone.  

I just compare it to cutting myself accidentally - the sharper the instrument I cut myself with, the longer and more profusely I bleed.  Trust me, I've done this more than once!    
We could even ask Vance and Norbert for a couple of more professional opinions   :p

[Shawn Leonard]

Yup, what Whip and OL said, a seratted cut closes quicker and stops bleeding due to the jagged edge having anther jagged edge to attach to, razor sharp will do! Shawn

[hormoan]

Sharpening any and every thing that needs it, is a art. Unfortunatly no scientific way to judge for us laymen. Other than the usual old timer tests. Cuts paper like a razor, and a few others. Just do your very best at getting em like a razor! I'll pass on serrated blades thanks.JMO


I'm thinking my buddy Vance has the most experiance. At leaving his own blood trails, with no shots fired!    :D  
I love ya though.

                  Brent

[vermonster13]

The sharper the better, though I left a good blood trail myself with no broadhead involved. LOL

[Mr.Magoo]

There was a good thread on this last year ...
 http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=038278;p=1

[nockhunter]

My personal test is when a knife or broadhead will remove hair from my arm effortlesly. I start out on a wet stone(knives), medium, to fine, to extra fine, if you want a scary sharp edge, after you have the edge where you think you want it take it to a buffing wheel with some buffing compound.(stainless only).I will bet it is the sharpest you ever got stainless. On broadheads I use the angled diamond  setup,  something I tried this year is to drag the broadhead on a 4000 grit water stone, works better than a strop it takes the bur off and polishes the edge slightly. They will take hair off your arm without feeling it, you could almost shave with them. As far as what type of edge is better I think that a smooth sharp is better because a jagged edge may load with fat and other tissue........Only my take on the whole thing.


Thanks for listening me rant
(and I hate the use of "harvest" unles it's your tomatoes I kill deer etc...)

Mike

[ChuckC]

But will a razor edge stand up to hitting or passing thru bone and ribs ?  or hair ?  How about the dulling factors like being unused in a quiver, or humidity causing oxidation ? Will it still be razor sharp after it goes thru the first side of the deer ?
ChuckC

[rt2bowhunter]

Maybe not But we no for sure that it wont be.If it wasnt razor sharp before it hit.

[C2@TheLibrary]

I believe in truly razor sharp broadheads for 3 very important reasons.
1) The first thing the broadhead needs to cut is hair. It takes a razor edge to cut hair.
2)A razor sharp broadhead makes an incision not a laceration. Incisions bleed more freely and longer before the autonomic systems of an animal engage. Arrows kill by means of extanguination. The freer and longer the blood flows the fast extanguination is reached.
3)The intial impact of the broadhead with the exterior tissue of the animal begins to dull the head. The sharper it is going in the sharper it will be going out.

[ChuckC]

Well, maybe.  Does a broadhead have to cut the hair ?  Can't it just part the hair ?  Scissors cut hair but are not so sharp.  An axe will cut hair under the right conditions and they aren't so sharp.  A piece of paper is not so sharp but we have all suffered paper cuts if the piece is moved just right at any good speed.

If the animal is hit in the chest, the odds are great that the animal will expire long before any form of clotting or vasoconstriction takes place.  "Exsanguination" will then happen even if the broadhead is not super sharp, but merely "pretty sharp".  

There is certainly a lot of reason to make your broadheads as sharp as we can, a lot of reasons, but especially because we are trying to do the very best job we can.

I wanted to bring up this discussion because each year there are numerous questions about broadhead sharpness, and better ways to sharpen broadheads.  

Sharpening broadheads to the point of easily shaving hair is not everybodies forte.  Some find it easy while others will never achieve it. I just question whether a broadhead that is not quite shaving sharp, shot thru any critter at arrow speed, will have any difficulty cutting everything in its path.
ChuckC

[Artur]

I do not know everything about broadheads and all that, not by any stretch of the imagination... But I agree with what C2@TheLibrary said in point # 3. If the edge is not sharp enough to cut the hide on the way in, it will never cut the hide on the way out (even if it does not encounter bones). Make sure your blades are **surgically sharp**, or at least as close to it as you can get them, before you even think about going out in the field -- and always sharpen them before using them again. As for serrated edges...

The real selling point of serrated edges is that they do not need to be sharpened **as often** as straight edges; as those little points wear down, though, they do become duller and they will not cut as efficiently as a straight, smooth, sharp edge. Serrated edges are best for when a smooth, clean cut is not of prime importance -- such as when you are cutting your cooked steak during dinner.

[nockhunter]

If your broadhead has suffecient hardnes it should hold up upon impact. The last deer I shot, I found my arrow broken in two, the broadhead would still shave hair. It broke a rib on the way in and no ribs on the way out. I saw the deer expire within 30 yards. I went to the house to get my kids 9 and 7 to blood trail it. A blind man could have found it. I am a firm believer in razor sharp heads, and everybody should strive to get that kind of edge. I wasn't able to get that sharpnes right away I had to practice, alot. Nobody is good right away they have to practice.(musical instruments, sports etc).

So practice alot, sharpen knives for your friends,(thats how I got practice)and soon you will be known as one sharp mutha.

Good luck

Mike

[BamBooBender]

O.L. and Whip pretty much covered it. This question has been around forever, and there are good arguments on both sides.I figure that a good knapped head (which was the first broadhead btw) is way sharper than anyone can get a metal BH so far. So get em as sharp as you can and go huntin.

Just to keep it interesting though, if you look at any edge under a(powerful enough) stereoscope there are gonna be some micro serrations. So maybe were all talkin about the same thing here to some degree.

[rascal]

Just from an ethical stand I say if you arent capable of getting a razor sharp edge then buy new ones or get someone to do it for you.  Would you take a shot at a deer knowing that you had only a marginal chance of mortally wounding it?? I didnt think so, why would anyone consider using a marginally sharpened broadhead to do the job?

Nockhunter I couldnt agree with you more, Ive never actually "harvested" a wild game animal or been particularly adept at political correctness.

[DAS Kinetic]

O.L. said it for me.  Nothing to add.  I am going to try the new Stinger buzzcuts this year though.  Even so, I'll be honing them to a fine razor edge.

David

[beaglesandbucks]

My "test" is very simple.  I hold the arrow on the floor...between my knees.  With the broadhead facing up, I then slightly strech a rubber band.  If the rubber band is cut and breaks instantly upon broadhead contact...it's good to go. If I have to run the rubber band down the broadhead to get it to cut...it needs some more strokes with the Accusharp.

The rubber band is about the same consistency as an artery.

Kills and bloodtrails not an issue with a 2 bladed Stinger.

[OH at work]

I know a lot of people don't like the cost of the silverflames but these heads really hold their edge even after hitting bone, etc.  Expensive but great heads.  I used to think they are too expensive to use on deer around here but would use them on out of state hunts because of the time and money invested in those hunts.  But these heads are so good and, unless I lose one, will hold up regardless of what I'm hunting.  That said I still love my Simmons heads shaving sharp!!

Joe

[Artur]

If anyone is interested in learning how to get any blade "shaving sharp", here is a book I found in a second-hand store:

"The Razor Edge Book of Sharpening", by John Juranitch. Imagine being able to take a completely dull (that's a rounded-edged, absolutely-no-way-it's-gonna-cut) axe to "shaving sharp", with only a file and a stone....and if an 11 year-old girl can get a skinning knife sharp enough to shave with, so can you! This book even has a section on sharpening broadheads.

This is not an advertisement for the book, just an honest opinion of its worth to the bowhunter and outdoorsman, and anyone who appreciates having a sharp knife for cooking.