Discussion..how sharp is sharp enough ?

[Fallguy]

The biggest problem is the test. Shaving with a razor that has been shrpend at a 30 or 25 degree angle is not nearly as easy and smooth as one that is shrpened at a 17 degree angle or less. Also no two people have the exact same type of hair on there arm. You just have to keep striveing to improve your technic just like we do on the practice range everyday.

[Liquid Amber]

All I've read refers to testing the effectiveness of an edge in a static model...try it at 160 feet per second and the difference between sharp and razor shape is moot.  

[Terry Green]

Yes, it should shave hair effortlessly....but you don't want it so sharp that the edge will 'roll' on a rib.  You want a durable angle, so the edge will be sharp after passing through even if it contacts bone. If its sharp after a pass through, you know everything that could have been cut was.

[Kenneth]

what angle degree do you guys use?  i put a 25 degree angle on mine and they get shaving sharp & they are durable.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Originally posted by beaglesandbucks:
My "test" is very simple.  I hold the arrow on the floor...between my knees.  With the broadhead facing up, I then slightly strech a rubber band.  If the rubber band is cut and breaks instantly upon broadhead contact...it's good to go. If I have to run the rubber band down the broadhead to get it to cut...it needs some more strokes with the Accusharp.

The rubber band is about the same consistency as an artery.

Kills and bloodtrails not an issue with a 2 bladed Stinger.

This is exactly the test i use too....You can have a blade that will cut hair off your arm with a couple strokes that wont cut a rubber band. the power will punch through the hide and break bones even....but how many veins and artery's are cut cleanly is what gives you a blood trail.....getting a hole in the lower portion of the body cavity helps tremendously too....i've seen many text book double lung,broad side shots in the mid-body on animals that ran up hill without leaving a trace of blood besides the initial contact....

FACT: If you get a hole in the bottom.....they leak more....my .02 worth ....Kik

[DarkeGreen]

My test include inspecting the damage done to the animal and then how well the broadhead survived.

I believe people worry too much about ribs. You need something that will get thru the hide on the onside and continue in a straight line. Lung tissue offers almost no resistance. Yu can thnk of it as air filled plastic bags. Try this on the next deer you shoot, grab one of the lungs in your hand and squeeze it. You'll see that pretty much anything is going to make it thru to th off side after you get past the rib.

While the bradhead may or may not dull the point is going to permit it to travel far enough to get the job done. The dulling effect, when it happens, still leave you with something as sharp as the blades are from the folks recommending more angle and thicker edges. Metal hardness is going to make more of a difference in the broadheads success.

Razor sharp is the way to go in my book, however, the profile or shape of the tip is going to aid penetration more than how sharp the edge is on a broadside lung hit, as will how many blades it has and their angle.

The 3 to 1 design works because it easily pokes thru and gradually cuts the hide on the way in so the risistance to the arrow is small taking away very little energy from the arrow. Rounded tips and short wide blades require a lot of energy.

The cut on impact is best as long as the tip isn't to narrow and soft. That is where the tanto shines. The double tanto quicky opens a hole in the hide and then you have the long narrowed angle of the blades to cut. Small amounts of hide and or flesh are cut per part of the blade that travels thru. With short fat blade designs you're poking more than cutting.

Heck, go buy a roast and try pushing some broadhead thru it. That will give you worse case test fo all but major bone hits. One a mojor bone hit the harder the metal, smaller the tip, and narrower the blade the better you chance for success, as long as the tip doesn't curl you're good to go.

That's my thoughts anyhow.  

[joebuck]

I shot a file sharpened 160gr Snuffer through both shield plates of a 340# feral hog at 10yards with a thick Superceder wood arrow. I shot 280# boar through both  shield plates with a 125 gr. German Sliver Flame broadhead polished razor sharp on my leather strop. Both cases I had a dead hog.  :rolleyes:

[Cavetroll]

Too sharp. Nothing of that is, in existence. Hone your skils sharpening as you would anything else you consider worthwhile.

[ChuckC]

Again...the point of bringing this up was to create discussion.  Lots of folks really want to know.  

Again....I think you should try to get as good as you can, so your heads are good and sharp.  But...we are not doing surgery here, we are killing an animal by pushing a sharp object thru them at a relatively good speed....150 - 200 fps, which is not the same as just slowly cutting something or slicing hair off your arm.

What changed my own mind ?    Nearly slicing my own finger half off with my own...not so very sharp ..pocket knife.  I got in the way of a knife that was in in rapid motion.  You should have seen the little arteries pumping.  Both the nurse and I were amazed.  

Sharp.  definately.  Sharp as you can get em....  (need to be)Shaving sharp ?...I am not so convinced any more.
Chuck

[eagle24]

As long as I can get it sharper, I keep sharpening.  When I get to the point where I can't get it any sharper, I quit.

I would disagree that they don't have to be shaving sharp.  Because of the elasticity of an animals skin, a dull broadhead can make an entrance or exit hole much smaller than its cutting width.

[vermonster13]

An injury to a human finger is a poor analogy. Unless you severed completely through the bone. For a broadhead to do it's job, it needs to pass through hair, hide and ribs while remaining sharp enough to do the job in the lungs/heart/liver/arteries/veins of the animal. Sharp and durable edges are important and making excuses to hunt with blades less than the sharpest you can possibly get them and not developing the skills to make them that way is a dishonor to the animals we hunt. IMO

[JEFF B]

mine are real     sharp  cause i had a broadhead stick in my leg and i did not feel a thing but ya could trail me all the way inside and back out again to the car. 2 blade ziwicky does the biz when needed. real easy to sharpen. as long as ya can go through hair skin and bone. i just missed the bone in my case by 1/16th of an inch.    but you get my drift

[eagle24]

Sharpen broadhead.....breathe on it and listen.....if you don't hear anything.....sharpen more, breathe, and listen.....when you hear the germs screamin you're done!  

[ChuckC]

Dave..  (Vermontster) .  I don't agree.  The point was not that it went (or did not) thru bone, it cut the meat, the skin, the arteries and everything else that got in its way, which is why we are sharpening the blades in the first place.   Actually, the analogy was better by far than shaving your hair.  It actually cut what we are trying to cut.  It worked.  That is the point I am trying to make..the addition of speed greatly enhances the cutting power of a simple blade...and also, greatly enhances the chances of causing damage to an otherwise sharp blade.

EDITED...
You did...however...hit on exactly the point of this topic.   Just what IS  sharp enough.  Just how sharp   IS   as sharp as you can get them.  Just how sharp  IS  sharp enough ?   and how do we know we achieved that.
ChuckC

[eagle24]

Chuck...I work in the lumber business.  I've seen some deep and nasty cuts from steel banding material, plastic bands, laminates(formica), and other edges that were not particularly sharp.  If you apply enough resistance, and yes...speed, many surfaces will produce a cut.  IMO a broadhead needs to be razor sharp so that it cuts with almost no pressure.  If this is not the case, (some) of the skin, muscle, arteries, tissue, etc. will simply be moved out of the way as the blade passes through.  It will cut, but it will not do the amount of damage or open holes like a razor sharp blade will open.  I do agree that you can have too shallow an angle on the edge which might be rolled by a bone.

[vermonster13]

A broadhead needs to pass through ribs to get where it needs to go. A soft tissue injury on a finger is not a good comparison. That's my thought and everyone is allowed their own. Part of what makes these threads a learning experience.

[ChuckC]

Do you think that stone (flint, obsidian, glass) points are sharp enough ?  I have yet to see one that shaves hair.  You can most certainly produce a flake of obsidian that will do that,and more,  but I am guessing that it would have a bit of trouble holding up on impact.  

Many people consider stone heads to be very adequate for hunting deer.  
ChuckC

[vermonster13]

Obsidian blades are sharper than any steel blade made. They are used in very precise surgeries.

It just seems to me as of late that what is the least I can use/do and still have a hope of being successful is becoming more and more of a theme as of late in the Traditional Forums.

[ChuckC]

Well then..there you go.  We should all be using 125 pound bows,  except those that "make do" with 75.  

The folks here are asking these questions because they want to know, and as of yet...don't.  In my state 30 pounds is legal bow weight for a deer.  Is that enough ?  The state thinks so.  Under certain conditions so do I.  Under other conditions...heck no.

Obsidian blades are sharp...you bet, but that same blade would shatter on impact if it hit a deer at 150 fps, much less any bone.  Same holds true for a "razor" sharp broadhead of soft metal and using a 12 degree taper to acheive that razor edge.  Sure it will shave your arm, and crumple on impact.

The point I am trying to make is that there is no hard fast rules here...and it is impossible to make up some strict guidelines such as "scary sharp".   If a 700 grain arrow goes right thru a deer,   and a 500 grain arrow does the same, then am I a bad person cause I want to use a 500 grain arrow ?  If my broadhead goes thru a deer and cuts everything it touches...and it will... does it matter if yours is "sharper".  At some point, sharp is sharp enough.  heavy is heavy enough.  fast is fast enough.  More is great, but like the old adage states... "enough is enough".

To say that I am less of a person, and don't "respect" the game if I don't shave with my broadheads, or shoot 125  pound bows, or smoke the same cigarettes as the next person is a little out there.  

There are folks out here, such as yourself, that are well versed in how to do this game.  And others, at least from the questions being asked and the posts being made, are not so well versed.  

How many postings have you seen just recently professing that "this is my first year, or second year"  or I hope to get my first trad game animal this year ?  Enough.....  Let's give them guidance, not shame them.  That is what this site is about.    That is why I am delighted, and proud to be able to share in these conversations.
ChuckC

[vermonster13]

No one is saying you are less of a person here Chuck but you. And I'm sorry but Obsidian heads going over 150 still zip through deer and other game. No one is saying to use 125# bows or any of the other stuff. I am just saying folks should be striving to improve not just get by. You decide for yourself as each of us does what that entails and what you are happy with. You put a question out and then argue over the answers you get. As far as first or second years, seems to me what you learn at the beginning is what stays with you for the long haul in many cases. No one trying to shame anyone, but if you're not ready to go in the field with the equipment yet, the only shame is not admitting it(how many first or second year folks come back during season with the I wounded one but couldn't find them threads each year?).