Pack goats and bowhunting

[oxnam]

My post about elk hunting with goats has stirred some interest and I'll give a little background here.

I have had pack goats for several years now and have enjoyed their personalities and especially their willingness to work.  There is no special breed of packgoats but generally come from dairy stock, ie Oberhasli, Alpine, Saanen.  These breeds are very friendly when conditioned properly and can grow quite large.

When goats are born, the kids are pulled from their mothers before they ever get a chance to nurse.  They are then bottle fed from birth to weaning.  By doing this the kids bonds to humans and will follow them around because they view us as the herd leaders. Mine follow me around like puppies and don't like to venture off

Generally only wethers (castrated males) are used as pack goats because they don't go into the rut and stink and the get quite large, 150-220#.  The loading guideline is that a mature goat can carry 25% of it's body weight.  This will very with the terrain and conditioning of the goat.

They make great hunting companions because they willingly carry a decent load and can handle virtually any terrain that I can navigate.  They are very low impact, they browse on vegetation like a deer, and need very little water as they somehow pull it out of the plants they are consuming.

They really helped on my last hunt and absolutely saved us from having to make a return trip back up the mountain to retrieve the rest of the elk.  We also had more good drinking water than we could have fit in our packs.  You've got to goats     :D

Sounds like a prety cool idea!

Bisch

[gregg dudley]

Good information!  Thanks!

[Canyon]

Yep my 1st set which were the kids 4H projects have grown old and retired. I couldn't resist getting three more which are in training.
They each have their own personality and will spot game long before I usually do.
They are great bowhunting companions and my goal is to be somewhere in the South San Juans with them next season for Elk.

[perry f.]

Pack goats are the best... I prefer them over a horse or mule. A lot less dangerous when you're hours away from nearest hospital. Also, a lot easier to care for. Have three and looking for one or two more. All my hunting buddies made fun of my goats till they packed their stuff 5 miles into the back country, now they think entirely differently of them.

[rastaman]

Very interesting info! They are very cool looking too!

[captain caveman]

Benefits over llamas?  Sounds like you had a high country camp, but were taking the goats with you on daily treks into more remote spots.  Is that correct?  Cool idea and great story thanks for sharing.

[medic77]

I have to admitt, this is pretty cool.  I haven't ever heard of this.

[TURKEYFOOTGIRL]

Read the book "the pack goat" for lots more information.  I can't remember the author off the top of my head, but its a good book with lots of useful info.

[oxnam]

Originally posted by captain caveman:
Benefits over llamas?  Sounds like you had a high country camp, but were taking the goats with you on daily treks into more remote spots.  Is that correct?  Cool idea and great story thanks for sharing.

I really don't have any experience with llamas but goat are extremely low maintenance and great companions, really, like a dog.  They eat a huge variety of forage and have a preference for weeds.  Their digestive system works so well that they don't even spread the seeds of noxious weeds and have been used widely as a tool in the fight against noxious weeds. I have heard that goats are much easier on the trail since they just follow along without the need to lead them.  If something spooks them, they come running to me.  Goats are smaller and therefore can pack as much as a llama, but I have never had any that would just lay down and refuse to go any further.

On our hunt, the goats did accompany us the whole time.  We only had our base camp and hunted out from there.

[wapiti792]

Great thread! Thanks for the info!

[Owlgrowler]

Thanks for the info.

What if you want to leave them in camp, tie em up? fence em in?  Would they have too much seperation anxiety?

Where do you get saddles for them?

[SELFBOW19953]

Derrick,

You said in your post about the elk, that the only time you had a problem with the goats was during blood trailing your bull.  Would they have followed the blood trail, like a dog does??  Maybe a tracking goat instead of a tracking dog?

If I lived where there was terrain (Delaware is fla-a-a-a-a-t!!!!!), I could see myself with goats.

[Oregon Okie]

Dang, now I want goats. My dad has Spanish goats but doesn't look they are prime for packing.

[Tav]

I have been interested in goats for the last couple years.  What kind of an investment is necessary to have a few goats.  How old do they have to be before they can pack?  thanks

[JockC]

Oxnam--Where do you acquire your stock?

[oxnam]

I'll try to answer your various questions so this will be a little choppy.

Opinions vary a little bit but most most concur that by age 3-4, they are ready for full loads.  You can pack them younger but they shouldn't carry as much, maybe 10-15% of body weight and not strained by the terrain.  You can expect them to pack until around 12 years old and some longer.

As for leaving them unattended in camp, that would make me a little nervous.  A lot of guys do, especially if someone is around to keep an eye on them.  The concern about leaving them is predators, ie bears, mountain lions, and even dogs.  Having them in an enclosed pen would would be a lot better.  In camp, goats are curious and mischievious.  They'll knock stuff over and get into things.  Some are better than others but you will likely want them penned or tied up.  I have kept them in a horse trailer with food and water which worked pretty well.  They had a enough room to get up and walk around with food and water readily available.

As long as a goat is not left alone, they seem to do just fine without any seperation anxiety.  Leave one alone and he thinks he is going to die. They are herd animals so at least keep them in pairs.

I don't think that goats are going to engage in any blood tracking, they didn't even seem to notice all the blood.  They will however walk all over existing tracks and blood making it more difficult to follow a trail.

I got my crossbuck saddles and panniers from Northwestpackgoats.com.  Great products from a great company.  The mountain straps option is very important in mountain terrain.

Goats really don't cost that much.  Kid's, in our area, cost between $40 - $125.  For my last kids I paid $125 and they bottle fed them for 3-4 months until weaned.  Kids are really fun at those early ages but they require extra time and money for the bottle feeding.  Experienced adults can run as much as $600.  Fencing can be one of the most expensive costs.  The can jump over high fences and get through many others flawed fences.  To solve those concerns, I ran a Petsafe underground dog containment system (I actually just hung the wire around on an existing barb wire fence).  The goats wear electric collars that remind them that the should stay completely away from the fence.  It's has worked very well for me.  The other ongoing cost is feed.  I only have to supplement their feed in the winter and have done it for less than 2 tons of hay and we have long winters.  If you had to feed all year, I read that you should plan on a ton of hay per goat per year.  There are ongoing costs but nothing like large pack animals.  It really doesn't cost much, but it adds up when you have seven goats like I do.

NEVER, NEVER, NEVER buy a goat that is people shy.  If they don't come right to you and want to hang around, don't waste your time.  I am speaking from experience on this one.  DON'T GET THEM.  Why?  They are not likely imprinted on humans and if spooked may go running off the mountain with all your gear (again speaking from experience).  Imprinted ones will come running to you and are so much easier to deal with because you never have to try and catch them because they want to be with you.

[oxnam]

Originally posted by JockC:
Oxnam--Where do you acquire your stock?

In the dairy goat world, the the male kids are the outcasts.  They can't be milked and don't pile on weight like the meat breeds.  So there is less demand for them.  Those breeders and dairies are a great source.  I have aquired most off of craigslist listings from the various breeders.  Some were listed as packgoats and others just as goats.  There are also some online forums that have classified listings.

For terminology, bucklings are intact males and wethers have been castrated.

Castration should occur no earlier than three or four months.  When castrated too early, their urinary tract system doesn't develop fully which can lead to urinary calculi.  This is basically bladder or kidney stones which is life threatening.

[4dogs]

Them wanting to hang around you could be a big benefit as you say. Had a freinds llama spook and run off on a trip once, found what was left of him a month later...onery cuss too!

[Hopewell Tom]

Northwestpackgoats.com has a ton of info as stated. Books and videos, enough to get you started.
Great thread, thanks.