Bear spray vs a handgun

[bornagainbowhunter]

Originally posted by Thumper Dunker:
If your only worried about the wolfs a 22 mag will work. I would be more worried about the bears. 44 mag +4 In our bow seasons you can't have any fire arm on you while bow hunting. Would love to get close to a wolf.

WARNING!!! this guy has an ulterior motive!!  I have read his posts!! He only gets close to wild dogs for one reason.

God Bless,
Nathan

[JEFF B]

44 MAG

[WidowEater]

Id be more worried about bears than wolves.

In other words, its a non-issue. Through and through.

Im not just a southern boy talking here either.  I did plenty of 2 week long deer camps in the western UP not 10 years ago during my 25 years in Michigan.

I was within 40 yards of bears on a regular basis and never saw a wolf.  Only heard them....at night.

[AkDan]

I will double what T says about wolves.  I would be more worried about bears and cats any day of the weak than a wolf!  known attacks are extremely rare (moose john milovich is one of two on record and its not confirmed...but it might be the names sake for the infamous moose john river...hummmm something to think about cough cough)

I hunt around grizzlies and blacks routinely and have spent a hunt around a young polar bear that had roamed south with no real problems to speak of.  We all know the demeanor of polars...they need no recognition in this circle.

I dont carry a handgun

I do carry pepper spray.   I trust my life to pepper spray.  

Those who advocate pistols of any kind.....usually are ones who know little about the situation..>OR< carry and ARE proficient with them in the first place. Unfortunatly there's an even bigger gene pool who believe they NEED to carry....this after working behind a gun counter for awhile now only confirmed what I've learned being around this kind of country most of my adult life.

  There's a huge difference to someone who knows how to operate one...to a person whose proficent with one in a ...hmm 'stressful' situation to put it nicely LOL!  Most of us can drive a car...it doesnt mean we belong on a nascar race track....after all who cant make a left hand turn over and over and over again...haha!  What a boring sport        

Shotguns are another one that I think are  often over looked.   alternating slugs/buckshot is probably the best round you can go with imho for bear deterrent/defense.   but you gotta lug a gun around and have it at the ready ALL THE TIME!  not slung/strapped to a pack etc.... or slung under a jacket as many do in the cold weather carry handguns!

The reality is pepper spray isnt ment to kill a bear....and you're not going to be spraying a bear 50 yards away either, they will be feet!  So enough with the pepper spray banter!  It's all a joke till the guy and his wife were mauled and killed, with a pistol and shotgun in hand a couple years back on the slope...doesnt do a damn bit of good when you're dead what kind of firearm you're toting along if you cant or dont get rounds in the air!  

and it WILL NOT!  read WILL NOT stop them in their tracks.  A shot in a million may....do you trust your life to that?  a super charged adrenaline filled 1000lbs of hungry pissed off charging moving animal ready to rip your head off and you got 1/2" to hit ?  Lungs are out, heart is out..you're dead before the bear dies.........  You dont have time to tinkle before you're hit!  Only those who have seen first handedly what a adrenaline packed brown bear can take will understand my point when it comes to whats enough to carry!  If you're hell bent on carrying, you'd best do some soul searching on whats the biggest round you can still be proficent with when you're bottoms trying to come out of your throat, breathing ceases and you're eyeballs are as big as an alaskan pumpkin on steroids!

things to think about when choosing protection.   This isnt a human assaliant....until you've been charged/bluffed/had your camp ruined/brownie 2 feet from your head, offering ill offered opinions is going to end up with another person sitting on the front page papers due to 'i'm bad enough syndrome....I've got a gun thats all I need'.   If you carry one you'd best know how to use it!   Practice with it to the point you can do it in your dreams...load in the dark and never skip a beat in the process.....many can, a LOT cannot!!!   Decide where you fall....your life depends on it!!!  

I engage in this very topic more often than I care to admit and it sickens me to hear/read/listen to some of the advice given when this question comes up in any circle...some is sound, some...well I'll keep my thoughts to myself there!!!! The seriousness of the question at hand goes much farther than a wi black bear!  Some of you or those reading, will end up here or in another part of the country that you had best be squared away or play the game of chance!  Gambling and me go very poorly together, I'm not going to start now and I would advise those who walk this path to do the same!

All seriousness aside....spend time really thinking about your situation, your need, your concerns, your experience, your dedication, and your drive...you'll find your answers uncovered when you do a little soul searching...whichever it may be, there is no wrong in any of them as they've all proven effective at their intended purposes in the right pair of hands!!!

[JamesKerr]

Sorry guys ment to type a 45 caliber not 44.

[Yellow Dog]

Smith and Wesson J Frame in .357 with Crimson Trace Grips. In my truck, pocket or waistband most everywhere I go. Being in the outdoors alone, two legged critters are a bigger threat than the four legged variety.

[Chromebuck]

You guys knew someone from Alaska would eventually chime in on this thread.

A couple of points on guns and spray.  Our own fish and Game Department gives training on bear protection for those with jobs that find themselves often in the field.  Our own Larry Lewis (seen in a couple episodes of Alaska State Troopers, Wildlife Division) teaches the course.

On guns: If your going to use a handgun for bear protection a .44 magnum is the smallest caliber considered effective.  More importantly is the bullet used in the cartridge.  Due to the shape of bear skulls it is not advised to use a hollow point bullet and it is best to use a composition of both lead and tin.  A harder less splattering bullet.  Most custom bear rounds for .44 are in the 225 grain on up and loaded hot!  

The firearm considered best suited for bear protection by the ADF&G is the 12 gauge.  I was silly enough to try and answer what the best rounds to load for 12 gauge protection is and I was completely wrong!  I gave a combination of slug and buckshot and was given the thumbs down.  It was as many sabots your magazine can hold, period.

On spray:  Considered highly effective, but the biggest consideration is wind.  There are cases throughout BC and Alaska where the individual sprayed and the wind put the spray back in their face and they effectively disabled themselves.

I know this thread is about black bear and I just want to share something out of our hunting regulations.  This is not verbatim, but it goes something like this:  If you are attacked by a brown bear protect your head and play possum.  If you are attacked by a black bear, fight as though you are about to loose your life...Black bears unlike brownies will eat you on the spot.  Brown bears if they take your life will burry you under a mound of debris(called a cache)and protect you from other predators.  The digestion system of brown bear are more suited for decomposing flesh and organs.  However, most bear maulings are not fatal and statistics show a great percentage of bear maulings occur to people who were carrying a firearm.

Just some things to share.

~CB

[TxAg]

Sometimes I'm really glad I live in TX  

[rraming]

I would do the spray, no reason to start shooting a gun, safer for you too since you don't own one and the spray is lighter in weight. You will not need either.

[Lost Arra]

I always heard that buying a bear tag was the best way to insure you won't see one.

[Sam McMichael]

I don't know much about wolves, but I know a fair amount about guns. I agree with those who would caution you of the difficulties of shooting a handgun under stress. However, the bang of the gun may well discourage a wolf. If you are going to carry a gun, take the time to learn how to use it.I would be more concerned about a bear. I THINK a wolf could hurt me, but I KNOW a bear can.  All that said, I would carry both. I carry a .45 Glock every time I go in the woods.

[DEATHMASTER]

With the pot growers poping up in the big woods I carry my CCW a Kimber 45 with extra clip.
I do not know it is there but handy if needed. I hope I never do.
Better to be sure and have one than wish you did.
I practice quite a bit and can handle what I carry. If a 22 is all that you can shoot well than carry that. A well placed shot no matter what size will bring down .......

[TDHunter]

Don't worry James a 44. mag in a semi auto will out perform a 45. any day, and yes they do make 44. mag in a semi auto.
45's are not for bears.

You are better off to use spray!

We just had another Hunter attacked up the Muskwa area in northern BC. Story so far is he got two rounds into a charging sow, which must have pissed her off because it tore him apart. Sounds like he's lucky to be alive but will be on a long, long road to recovery.

[JimB]

Boy you are right TD.I forgot about the Desert Eagle.Sorry James.I never knew anyone to carry one for protection as they are extremely heavy,bulky and reputed to have feeding problems.

I carry handguns most of the time when I'm outdoors and have taken a few dozen big game animals with them including bears and lions.I guess that's what I am familiar with so that's what I carry.I'm not saying it's the top choice.

Having said that,if I were in the OP's situation,I would go for the spray.Chances are you won't need it either but it takes time to become proficient at still targets with a .44.A borrowed one,I don't think would help much.

[captain caveman]

We are talking black bear and wolves.  I think biggest issue here is  a borrowed handgun is bad idea.  Any votes for the judge revolver?  Very easy to learn to use and reliable.  I think i would sleep well with it and some buck shot and slugs.  I wanted to put in a vote for a shrew hawk. I feel pretty confident with it hanging on my side and makes great camp and tree stand prep tool.  I think it's one of coolest purchases I've made.  Anyway have fun. I've found that the more tired I get after couple days sleeping on the ground I tend to not worry as much about comfort or things wanting to eat me.

[Hawken1911]

I don't know where he got his statistics, but I heard an experienced guide say that bear spray was 90% effective at stopping bears in their tracks and turning them around.  On the otherhand, with a handgun you have to hope to get accurate hits on the charging beast, and then he still might end up on top of you, only in a much worse mood.

To the original post though, I don't know about bear spray's effectiveness against wolves.  I don't recall ever hearing it suggested as an option for anyhting other than bears before.

[wapitirod]

without going back into the whole story since I posted it on the backup gun section underdangerous game and on the handgun post here I build hunting revolvers in calibers up to .510 but my carry weapon is a 44spcl or 45LC.  The spcl with my handloads will handle bears.  I've been in sticky situations with cats and bears and a handgun saved my life with a cat.  As far as the dogs some of you may not be aware of the woman bowhunter in Idaho this year that was charged by a wolf and killed it with the 44mag she was carrying.  Recoil from the 44 is relative to the person shooting it, to me they don't even registered compared to my 475 and 500 Linebaughs but the only way to find out is get out and shoot it to see if your comfortable with it.  Bear spray isn't as effective as it's made out to be, especially when an animal is already worked up but a bullet will always get the job done if you do your part.

[AkDan]

.475 linebaugh ya baby!!!   saw one with pearl ivory scallops...what a piece!!!!

[kpete]

I don't think I have read of many wolf attacks.  I think they are extremely rare-other than on TV.  Bear attacks are rare as well.  I think I have read that pepper spray is less effective on black bears than on Grizzlies.  When black bears decide to attack they are serious about it.  I live in black bear country and lion country and I don't arm up for either.  I am more likely to carry a .22 for grouse than a gun for bears or cats.   I do have pepper spray.  Ummmm. I tried it once just to make sure it would still deploy.  I was standing out the back door and the wind was coming across right to left.  When I squeezed off a extremely short burst the yellow cloud made a big circle in the wind current and was now approaching from my right.( I know you bowhunters can understand a swirling wind.)  I ducked for the back door but caught a bit of the yellow cloud.  By the time I got the door shut I was already gasping.  By the time I reached the lap top and booted up to search for an antedote I was running from the eyes and nose, my throat was tightening up.  
The lesson...pepper spray would probably put me on the ground where the bear could dine easily.
The effect on me was impressive!

[gringol]

When I go into the woods, I don't carry anything for bears or wolves.  I just hope that the smell of a hot, fresh load in my pants will discourage any bears or other critters from devouring me.