Where have the ethics and respect gone?

[ChuckC]

That is one of the reasons folks love their bells and whistles.  They don't have to practice, they don't have to scout, they don't have to live the life.  They want the glory of the Booner for very little cost in terms of expended energy. And they want it now. .  That is our society.  Look around you.  It isn't just bowhunting,  it is in everything we do.

Another sore point. .  I have hunted deer with bows and arrows since I was 16 (I am 57 now), and for small game well before that.  I am out in the woods a TON, yet I have seen only one animal that had an arrow in it that I didn't just place there.  Arrows are fragile and break or are pulled out, almost every time,  maybe every time.

Where do these folks see "too many", implying there are alot of them.
ChuckC

[Oldskool2]

most of the compound guys I know take there bow to the range, sight it in and think the bow is what kills the deer. The beauty of trad hunting is we know it is the hunter that kills the deer and we approach it a greater reverance.

[Slasher]

There are hunters...
there are slob hunters....
Then there are guys who go and hunt...

I know wheelie guys that fit all three...
I know gun hunters who fit all three...
Very few slob hunting trad hunters because the price of admission usually discourages most of the lazy ones from even trying...

But we all have our few....

[roundbal]

I can count 5 guys I work with that I have been talking hunting with the past few weeks and still they have yet to even shoot there bows (compound guys). They haven't scouted, they haven't did anything but give me hell because I switched to traditional and I have decided to do it from the ground.  They have been calling me Robin Hood for the past month poking fun at me. Dosen't bother me a bit because I have been shooting and scouting and when deer season opens up in Va I know I will be ready.

[AWPForester]

Well, while those guys are compounders, I am sure there as many guys that shoot trad bows that hasn't practiced enough either.  It has nothing to do with the weapon, just the person.  I am certain that moleman knows that because he didn't point it out until asked.  Eitherway, some of you gus make me wander.

I am different from you a lot of you guys.  While I hunt with a longbow or recurve, I also own a souped up, top of the line 2010 model Mission compound that has never seen the woods.  It is a marvel of engineering.  Super fast and quiet with my 500 grain arrows.  251 fps precisely.  I shot it 2 weeks ago after not touching it since June of 2011.  My first shot from 40 yards was within 2 inches of the bullseye and well within acceptable kill zone.

That is how they work.  They are simply so tuned and precise, with the new string material being used that never stretches, they simply never lose tune.  Making the time they require to be lethal mere minutes from the second you buy it.  I imagine that if I don't pick it up for 5 years it will be the same thing.  That is why guys like them.

With that said, I know some of each kind.  The guys that wait till the last minute deserve no ridicule from me because they chose to coach the local football team or help out at church, or something else besides shoot their bow daily like me, unless it makes their performance on game questionable.  I also know the guys that will shoot snuff can groups at 50-60 yards daily with their compounds because that is what they choose to do and feel it is nessecary to be ready when the time comes.  So, what applies to one does not apply to all.

I know this is a trad site and a good one at that, but the one constant of them all is that alot of guys that hang out on them feel like they are ethically and morally superior to other hunters because they choose a stick bow.  Ethics and morals are not defined by a weapon.  They are defined by the person.  If you extremists are not careful you are going to get what you give when the many compounders start arguing the same against us for even choosing the trad bow when a more precise and efficent weapon is avialable.

I didn't type this to argue and I won't.  And I meant this only to the ones it applies.  I hope this offends no one because it isn't my intent.  But I am just telling you my opinion and what I see.  It surely doesn't apply to everyone.  Just be careful what you say and how you lump people into broad groups hased on their weapons choice because the arguement you use to try and prove your point can and will be looked at from different angles by different people.  Good day and God Bless

[JDunlap]

Thanks awpforester.

[archeryx]

Originally posted by AWPForester:
Well, while those guys are compounders, I am sure there as many guys that shoot trad bows that hasn't practiced enough either.  It has nothing to do with the weapon, just the person.  I am certain that moleman knows that because he didn't point it out until asked.  Eitherway, some of you gus make me wander.

I am different from you a lot of you guys.  While I hunt with a longbow or recurve, I also own a souped up, top of the line 2010 model Mission compound that has never seen the woods.  

With that said, I know some of each kind.  The guys that wait till the last minute deserve no ridicule from me because they chose to coach the local football team or help out at church, or something else besides shoot their bow daily like me, unless it makes their performance on game questionable.  I also know the guys that will shoot snuff can groups at 50-60 yards daily with their compounds because that is what they choose to do and feel it is nessecary to be ready when the time comes.  So, what applies to one does not apply to all.

I know this is a trad site and a good one at that, but the one constant of them all is that alot of guys that hang out on them feel like they are ethically and morally superior to other hunters because they choose a stick bow.  Ethics and morals are not defined by a weapon.  They are defined by the person.  If you extremists are not careful you are going to get what you give when the many compounders start arguing the same against us for even choosing the trad bow when a more precise and efficent weapon is avialable.

I didn't type this to argue and I won't.  And I meant this only to the ones it applies.  I hope this offends no one because it isn't my intent.  But I am just telling you my opinion and what I see.  It surely doesn't apply to everyone.  Just be careful what you say and how you lump people into broad groups hased on their weapons choice because the arguement you use to try and prove your point can and will be looked at from different angles by different people.  Good day and God Bless

Well said AWP.

[SELFBOW19953]

To me, the most important things are:
knowing your limitations
passing on low percentage shots
sharp BH's
quiet bows

Taking shots at ranges you aren't proficient at, taking head-on/quartering to shots or shots at spooky animals, dull BH's, or shooting a bow that sounds like the kitchen sink just fell is as bad as not practicing, no matter the weapon.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I think this is true in a number of different aspects of life, not just hunting....

Traditional hunters have more dedication to practicing to become more efficient and it   Requires more practice to be consistent.

This is not so true with compound bows that have sights with a peep on the string, and the use of a release aid....The last 3 years i carried a compound bow i could leave it on the wall all year long and with a couple practice shots shoot groups at 60 yards the size of your fist....

It's the same with rifle hunting. if you are an accomplished marksman that has been trained correctly there is nothing unethical about not practicing at all if you can shoot well.

Unfortunately the percentage of accomplished marksmen, and accomplished archers as well, is much smaller than the general population of hunters in the woods.....

I've known some darn good target and 3D archers that shoot constantly and absolutely come apart at the seems while hunting and can't hit the broad side of a barn....

Where does your ethics theory fit into this category of archers?  

Your cup is either half empty... or half full depending on perspective. Ethics is nothing more than a moral philosophy......shall we define morality and see where it goes?

food for thought....


PS:  i posted this at the same time as

  AWPForester ..... Nicely said!  

[roundbal]

The use of traditional bows whether it be a longbow or recurve takes a fair amount of shooting/practice to stay efficient. The reason I left my bows with training wheels is because I could go several months without shooting and pick it up and shoot softball sized groups at 40 yards and after a little practice I could shrink the group even more. The reason I would leave the bow sit for several months was because it was boring to me and offered no challenge anymore. Just about anybody can pick up a compound and with minimal practice be shooting good. That is not the case with traditional archery. It is a constant challenge to improve your capabilities within yourself and for hunting reasons that are never ending. I got my first decent compound when I was 16 years old and the only three 3d shoots I shot in I placed 2nd and 3rd twice shooting with adults. I am not saying that to brag but to make a point that it is a big difference between traditonal and compound shooting. To me their is a big difference in a guy who can leave his bow on the rack for 6 months and pick it up and start shooting with hunting accuracy over a man who has to shoot on a constant basis to keep his skills. In my opinion it is unethical to not practice using your hunting equipment before hitting the field whether it be traditional, compound, crossbow, or a firearm. I don't care who you are or how long you have been doing it we all owe it to the animals we pursue.

[pumatrax]

While we are on this subject ; I'll throw this out there...I noticed an ad on Craigs list for a horse..said it was used to pack in salt blocks and pack out elk..hmmm...the horse belonged to a "unusually" successful guy that is a member of a particular "religious" group in our area...seems like MOST of the group is "highly successful" ...all of them compound shooters...makes me wonder ?

[Thumper Dunker]

[SteveB]

In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.

[SteveB]

I posted before reading Kirkall and AWP's posts - agree with them.

[Kevin Dill]

I don't own a compound. I know as many outstanding compound-using hunters as I do guys who shoot other bows. I've seen plenty of stickbow guys who...based on proficiency with their weapon...should be watching tv on Saturday mornings. There is a lot more to readiness and ethics than simply being able to shoot a bow, however. The bow doesn't make the man, or indicate his passion...dedication...or woods abilities. There are plenty of hapless trad hunters trudging to their hunting areas in October.

A final thought: I wonder how many of those 'last minute' compound dudes could out-shoot the average trad guy at 20 yards on opening morning? The answer might leave some guys feeling a bit uncomfortable.

[Biggie Hoffman]

Originally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.

Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics?

[tuscarawasbowman]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
 

Originally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.

Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]

THIS    

[Iowabowhunter]

Just seems kind of lazy to me. I shoot both trad and compounds, while I am not proficient enough yet with my trad gear I am hoping to be come spring time. I have shot the broadheads I will be using on my compound since mid July, have sharpened and re-sharpened them close to 5 times, packed-unpacked and repacked my hunting pack, sharpened up my knife that was handed down to me by my grandfather, washed and sealed up my hunting clothes. It is all part of the fun for me, whether it be trad or otherwise it seems to me that the guys who don't pick up bows until a week or two before just must not enjoy archery???

[Kevin Dill]

Originally posted by Iowabowhunter:
it seems to me that the guys who don't pick up bows until a week or two before just must not enjoy archery???

A particularly useful point. There are guys who gun hunt, yet don't especially enjoy shooting guns or get pleasure from it. The same situation applies to some bowhunters. They hunt and love hunting, but the bow is of no special interest. The bow is simply the requirement for them to hunt during archery season. It's not a mandate for guys to enjoy shooting/practicing with their weapon as much as they do hunting with it. It may actually be a chore to practice.

On the flip side: There are a number of guys who love to shoot traditional-type bows (and compounds too for that matter) yet have little interest in dedicated hunting.

You can't have bowhunting without archery, but that doesn't mean that a guy will love both.

[Lee Viv]

I agree with SteveB and Biggie....go to a large shoot like Denton Hill, stand on the practice range, or shoot a course....and see the poor shooting, the "foam is good" mantra that abounds....and ask yourself....do these folks belong in the deer woods?

Yes, there are compound shooters and gun shooters who pull their equipment out before the season...and sight in and consider themselves good to go...are those people, who do that and hit what they aim for, less ethical or worse than the trad shooter who can't group, let alone hit vitals on a 3D animal at 15 yards?  

Everyone comes at hunting from different perspectives....the guy shooting the compound may have totally different circumstances than a guy shooting a stickbow....

The guys who shoot compounds from my archery club shoot their bows year round....indoor target, outdoor field, 3d, etc...they are always shooting....they go out and scout....just as much as I do if not more....and they are as adept in the woods as any hunters I know...and usually end up with one if not more deer in the freezer.

This last minute preparation is nothing new...it has gone on as long as I can remember....and probably will continue to do so....it is not the equipment, it is the person....

Next time you attend a trad shoot....watch the shooting....start watching the "missed" threads that will start....

Perhaps we should be more concerned with the problems within our own circle before we start pointing fingers at others.....


Lee