Where have the ethics and respect gone?

[Roger Norris]

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
 

Originally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.

Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]

Yeah, I'm not too fond of the "I missed again" or "do you think this deer will recover" crowd. I have missed deer, and I have wounded deer. Nothing bothers me more. I am committed to NOT having that ever happen again.

 Joe Skipp started a great thread, reminding us to keep practicing during the season. Awesome advice. The pic attached is a knot hole I shot at probably 200 times last week. It was on a berm where we parked the truck. I shot...I shot...every yardage possible....10 yards to 40 yards. The significance of this picture is that it was about a 40 yard shot.
 
 So I can shoot game animals at ths distance? Not a chance. I haven't shot at a deer further than 12-15 yards in a looooong time. So those are my ethics....practice, a lot. And only take slam dunk shots. Foam doesn't equal flesh.

[Stickbow]

I haven't  bothered shooting my .22 since it was sighted in. Not unless I catch a house cat slipping through my place.

[caihlen]

Ethics?  

One word.  Ozonics.

Look it up.  This is where ethics has gone.  There are no ethics in the bigger population.  They've all been trained by tv to win at any cost and to do it the easy way.  No hard work.

[ripforce56]

Wow I shoot every day, weather permitting, right thru the hunting season! I hunt from ground blinds so I spend a lot more time shooting from my blind postion to duplicate my hunting shot! Plus I small game hunt and stump a lot in the fall! I also shoot my longbow with my hunting clothes that I am going to wear during the season to get used the that too!

[Goshawkin]

Almost all of my friends hunt with compounds.They'll all very ethical hunters and VERY good shots.Target and 3d shooting with them actually helps me alot. I can pick up my buddy's compound and shoot 6" groups at 30 yards.
In my opinion they are much easier to get good with than trad bows. I wouldn't have to practice anywhere near as much with one as I do with my longbow to feel comfortable to take it hunting.It doesn't matter what equipment you use to hunt with,each group has it's share of idiots.
I really hate when "trad" guys bash all the "wheelie bow,Training wheel,etc shooters". I have a couple friends that tried out recurves and just couldn't  get the hang of them. They didn't feel they could shoot them good enough(after ALOT of practice) to hunt with,so they went back to compounds. I have alot more respect for them than a few trad guys I've seen at 3d shoots. Horrible shooting,missing very close shots,then saying "put hair on in it and I'll kill it in the woods everytime" Yeah,OK. You can't hit a piece of foam at 12 yards,but you'll do fine on a deer??? The equipment doesn't make you an A$$H*!e,you do that yourself.

[JO_EZ]

I just sat through a hunter safety course with my son. The instructor stated that 10% of the US population are hunters, 10% are anti hunting and think it should be out lawed. The 80% in between are neutral on the subject and we should present ourselves in such a way that the 80% agree that our 10% should still be allowed to continue to hunt.

It doesn't matter what method of hunting one enjoys, if they are hunting, they are in our 10%. They are on our side. We should view and treat them like family.

I know plenty of compound hunters and fire arms only hunters who are totally committed to their weapon of choice and are very proficient.

Let us do something about the log in our own eye before commenting on the speck in someone else's eye.

[gringol]

Modern equipment makes shooting easier, precisely so that less practice is required.  That's the whole point.  I shoot my rifle once a year prior to deer season, but I can damn sure put a deer down at 100 yds with one shot.  Compounds are the same way.  They've all but eliminated human error.  I know a few trad hunters that switched back to wheels because they didn't have the time to devote to the practice required to become and remain proficient with a stick bow.  I love trad hunting, but I'm not going to pretend I'm more ethical than anyone else because I choose to make hunting a lot harder than it has to be.

I think that ther is also a contingent of people who do not even consider themselves bowhunters....but hunt with a bow during archery season because it gives them a month more time after the deer. I hang out in the local archery shop a lot and every September I watch guys come in who have not touched their bows since last season. There are quite a few who really have no business being in the woods with a bow in their hands....as demonstrated by their ability...or lack thereof.

As stated above, I shoot everyday because I want to be a good and prepard as I can and because it is FUN!!!!

Bisch

[roundbal]

I am not bashing anyone or there choice of equipment. This will be my first season using traditional equipment and I expect it will be a tough season but that is what I like.  I will use a flintlock or percussion muzzleloader this season as well on a hand full of days because like traditional archery it takes lots of practice to be proficient at it. Believe me carrying a 54cal flintlock thru mountain laurel straight up a ridge sporting a 36" barrel and constantly making sure the pan is properly primed (kinda have to use the gun as a walking stick in some areas) is hard work (and it weighs 11 lbs), but it adds to the challenge of the hunt. But I am an archer at heart I have always been intrigued by all forms of archery but I just happen to find my "love" for archery with my first traditional bow. I sold off all my wheelie's but I have a gun safe full of guns as well      I wouldn't dare knock anyone for there choice of equipment, I just think it takes a different kind of person to stick with practice it takes with traditional archery. And I know guys that shoot there firearms and compounds year round as well but I also know several people who shoot for sh#$ and they won't shoot there bow or firearm until they see the first deer in the woods this year and that burns me a new one.

This subject always ruffles my feathers

[LookMomNoSights]

There's always something to hunt.....whether it be deer,  varmints or just those big ole' grass hoppers along the field edge or rotten stumps along the trails.  I shoot every chance I can and Im always hunting with my bow because I simply love to do it.  It's my method of choice and I am proficient.  I am an archer.  I dont even understand that language of taking the bow out to get it ready cuz it hasnt been shot since last season.....I dont comprehend.  Im guessing its piss poor preparation though,  Im on the right track aren't I?!  :rolleyes:

[USN_Sam1385]

It is up to the individual to know their own personal limitations and the limitations of their weapon. I put a deer down at 407 yards last year with my .308. My longest shot ever. I only shot the weapon five times total all year. 3 to ensure the sights were on and two at two seperate deer. Both clean kills. I wouldnt even attempt a shot at a deer past 20 yards with my longbow however. But Howard Hill or Fred Bear would and did.

[GRINCH]

I know guys that shoot year round and guys that shoot when the season opens,it's up to the individual to have the ethics to practice and know their limitations.

[Running Buck]

Interesting thread, we are all hunters. Take the weapon of your choice and shoot it well. Give fair chase, its the very least we can do for the game we pursue.

[joe ashton]

Pass me the  PREPARATION-H
 I definitely know some of those people.  The guys I know that  drag the bow out the week before the season,  don't need to practice because their bow is still sighted in from last year.  They usually hunt hard the first day, maybe two (from the seat of their 4 wheeler) then spend the rest of the time nursing hang overs.  
I believe the guys that shoot (and scout) all year get the most back straps.. definitely are having the most fun.
Joe

[Adam S. Daugherty]

My choosing of hunting game with a recurve bow straight out makes me a less ethical hunter and a lesser respector of the game I pursue.  Here is the reason I say this is fact for me.  I am 35 years old and I have not shot a compound bow for 15 years.  But I will bet I can leave work now go to the nearest place that sales compounds, buy one, spend and hour putting on a rest, kisser button, tieing a release loop, etc, and in 30 minutes of shooting at 25 yards be able to hit a skoal can lid every shot.  In 15 years of practice I can not hit a skoal can lid every shot at 25 yards, and I bet there isn't a person on trad gang that can either.  To take it a bit further I can take a scoped rifle and circumcize a knat every shot at 25 yards.  So if I was truely fully concerned about ethics and respect I would use my silvertip recurve for kindlin and burn the thing.  Then I wouldn't hunt with nothing but a rifle and only shoot things in the eyeball where they never knew what happened.

Sometimes all of this ethics, respect stuff from the traditional community is what really sets off a chapping of my A$$.  Just because we choose to shoot a more challenging piece of equipment some folks thinks it rises us to some level of elitism.  So we shoot our bows all year long and then go out and miss a deer and then post about the experience and how much we liked the simplicity and conectivness we felt, even though we missed.  Well every miss was alot closer closer to wounding an animal than it was ethically killin it.  

I understand where the post was coming from and yes the weekend warriors I don't condemn them but I do feel sorry for them because there is so much that they are missing.  They don't know what they are missing by not being in the woods, practicing with their equipment, connecting with the critters, creating heritage, living their primal dreams.  because they miss all of this i feel for them.  Are they non-ethical and disrepectful, probably in general more so than the person who can be considered a hunter, no matter what their equipment choice.

I accept the choice that I made to hunt with what I hunt with.  I know that I cannot "kill" as proficient with a recurve bow as well as I could with a compound bow.  I have heard folks say that I just cant shoot a compund as accuratley as I can my recurve.  I think to myself how in the heck is this possible, you must be severly toxophilte challenged.  

I hunt with a recurve bow simply for the personal challenge.  Sure I appreciate and respect the history, the romance, etc.  But when I put a broadhead through vitals of a critter I thank GOD for providing me the critter to pursue and for giving me the ability to kill it.  I am proud of myself for killin it, and I feel rewarded for the hard work and determination that it takes to get to that moment.  It has happened alot in the last 15 years, not 2 or three times, not 40 times, but alot.  Also over the 15 years there have been some misses and woundings.  At those times I was pissed off and questioned my respect and ethics that I just displayed.

[Joshua Long]

Originally posted by Slasher:
There are hunters...
there are slob hunters....
Then there are guys who go and hunt...

I know wheelie guys that fit all three...
I know gun hunters who fit all three...
Very few slob hunting trad hunters because the price of admission usually discourages most of the lazy ones from even trying...

But we all have our few....

I agree!

[Thumper Dunker]

Originally posted by tuscarawasbowman:
 

Originally posted by Biggie Hoffman:
 

Originally posted by SteveB:
In the coming months we will see a slew of "missed (1,2,3+)" and "missed again" threads by trad hunters they shoot year round. Overwhelmingly they are told to keep shooting - it will happen - it's all part of it. Anyone who practices a lot and still accept numerous misses/wounds is no different then one who puts in less time for similar results - and the missed/wounded animals can't tell the difference. How much someone practices with their choice of equipment is little indication of their ethics - results are.

Thanks Steve, you just saved me from typing that.
I know a lot of guys who "practice" everyday who can't hit a pie plate @ 15 yards. Where are their ethics? [/b]

THIS      [/b]

Ditto.

[JCJ]

I see it every year.

Hardly anybody at the range until Labor Day.

Then the two weeks leading up to the season bowhunters show up and make sure their equipment is still working and shoot a few shots practice. Next stop is deer season.

My future son-in-law is one of these folks. He comes over in late August and sights his bow in with a few shots on my 3-D targets. He shoots really well and in just a few minutes he is more accurate than I am even though I shoot daily almost the entire year.

He kills a couple deer each year and is happy as a clam. I have offered to set him up with traditional gear and he has no interest.

I am constantly reminded that my values as a bowhunter are not the same as the values of the next bowhunter. And in the end being of the "big tent" philosophy, I am fine with that.

[riverrat 2]

When I shot a compound,after you got your set-up dialed in that was that. I would only get it out proir to the opener to shoot a dozen arrows or so thru it,check it all over well,and that was it. They are a gun in my eyes. Very little challenge,and very proficient at consistant shooting. If you LOVE the sport of archery,and love a never ending challenge with it. You MUST shoot traditional. I feel alot of compound shooters honestly don't know what they are missing. rat'

[ChuckC]

If they can't hit at 15 but only shoot to 10, right there are their ethics.

How about another point of view. . .   Yes, they are easier. . . way easier, which is in large part why the argument starts every year and has since the compound came out.  Once you buy the thing and someone sets it up,  you can drag it out once a year, kill your deer at 50 - 75 yards (just like on TV) then they get to scream something (like. . I put the smackdown on it), wave their fists in the air and go back to watching the game.

There is a simple fact in our society.  A large majority now feel that they should achieve something with little or no cost, be it in terms of practice, study, time-in etc. It is thier destiny and it is owed to them. That is the way it is nowadays, in work and in play.

Do I like it. . . no. . . do I matter to the big picture. . .   bigger no.

For some of us,  this is a way of life. .  not just in choosing what bow we use, but how we act, how we live, how we view life.  

Unfortunately we are dwindling.

ChuckC