Go Lighter?

[8Crow]

I've been wondering for a while now if I should try to get a lighter bow, so I thought I'd throw the question out there for the collective wisdom of the group.  I sold my compound earlier this year and picked up a used 64" Predator longbow that pulls 46# at 28".  I'm 6'5", though, and my draw length is about 31", so I pull more like 52# at full draw.  I know that's not all that heavy, call me a wimp.

I wasn't able to practice for much of the summer, but when I practice now I see occasional bits of unbelievable consistency (and hitting where I intend to).  In between those bits, though, I'm all over the place and I know it's because my form isn't consistent.  I just keep wondering if I'd see dramatic improvement in my form if I had a little lighter and longer bow...maybe 40# @ 28" so  I was pulling around 45-46# at full draw.  And maybe more like 66-68" so the stack wasn't so bad?

I know this is a very subjective question, but I'm hoping for a little insight.  There are lots of things standing in the way of getting a lighter bow...
1) The money
2) Is it wise to learn a new bow in the middle of hunting season?
3) Will I be able to use the same arrows, practice tips and broadheads?  (if not, more money)
4) Would it really be worth all the effort for 5-6# less?

I think the bottom line for me is, my compound is gone and I'm not getting another, so one way or another I will become proficient with traditional gear.  When I manage to stack 4-5 arrows on top of each other, right where I'm aiming, I feel like extreme accuracy is possible, but then the next 4-5 will look like a buckshot pattern. I know I'm straining with the bow and my form changes.  So what is the quickest, best bet for better consistency?

[roundbal]

This fellow here helped me alot. He has several videos that really helped me make my form more consistent. It sounds like your form is out of whack.

 

[Forrest Halley]

I respectfully contend that the answer lies in practice and conditioning rather than an equipment race. The great things about practice and conditioning include, but are not limited to: you look better, shoot better, feel better, and you get to keep the equipment the same. Have faith in yourself and move forward with confidence! You can do this.

[TxAg]

Many advocate starting with a lighter bow to develop good form. I can attest to that.

However, 52# isn't thaaaat heavy so you may still be well off.

I would concentrate on shooting less, but putting more thought into your technique and form. That means you don't have to shoot an arrow every time. You can work on bow hand, string hand, stance, body position, anchor, back tension....you get the idea.

I'm far from an expert, but I know this much: consistency is key.

If you can perform the same mechanics every time, your arrow will go the same place every time.

I'm sure there are some seasoned vets that will chime in shortly. They can point you in the right direction.

[Bill Carlsen]

Your money might be better spent on the Masters of the Bare Bow DVD series. The problem probably is not going to  be answered by getting a new bow (which also means new arrows)  but in understanding and learning some of the basics of good shooting form. I would also suggest some strength training to add to your shooting program. Most athletes cross train using weights and other forms of conditioning to improve performance in their specialty. It also works for archers.

[BigJim]

You know I hear guys say that guys should buy a light weight bow to work on form. The problem is that form requires constant attention for the rest of your days not just until you get it right. It is a struggle for life. Then when you start to get it down, you change to a heavier bow and everything changes again.

Lower weight doesn't always mean better accuarcy. You confessed that you haven't been shooting enough. What makes you think that you should already be accurate and consistant just because you started back shooting.

Also 64"s is not too short for you either (unless that is a "D" style bow). It is a culmination of your atrophied muscles starting to strain as you get back to the "52"(probably more like 55 at 31)  pound range. If you dropped the weight on that bow to 42, you wouldn't think it stacked at all.

Everyone is after the smoothest easiest pulling bow they can find but instead of dropping weight (that would show weakness) they want to lengthen the bow or blame draw weight for accuracy. Really it comes down to not putting in your time.


I have been thinking about starting a "new" line of bows where every bow was marked 10 pounds heavier than what it really is. I would make Millions $


Consistancy and accuracy don't just happen, you have to work at it. Also smoother (comparing identical model bows but different weights and or lengths) is essentially less performance.

BigJim

[Night Wing]

I've got a 30" draw and I can sure tell the difference between a 64" bow and a 66" bow when drawing both bows of equal poundage.

If you look at my signature, you'll see I own two 66" recurve bows. They're smoother to draw with my draw length. The longer bow will be better for your form and it will "feel" easier (smoother) to draw if both bows are the same model, but different lengths.

With a short bow, you have to fit into the bow. But, with a longer bow, the bow fits into you. I've seen quite a few guys with long draw lengths, like your 31" with bows in 60"-64" lengths. At full draw, their draw arms are not in a straight line. Their heads are leaning into the bow too. They look all scrunched up like stuffing an oversized package into the wrong size small box.

From my own personal experience and watching other long draw trad archers, with your 31" draw length, get a longer bow than 64". If you can, demo someone's 66" and your 64" side by side and you'll "feel" the difference.

[BigJim]

Night Wing, that is so true, but it's not the bow length that is making the real difference, it is the loss of performance. 50lbs on a 64" bow is not the same as 50lbs. on a 68" bow. A bow is  nothing more than a mechanical device. The more you flex the limbs, the more it will perform.
That same 64" bow will perform the same or better at a few less pounds as it would a few inches longer. It will also feel smoother and be less combersome in the woods, vehicle, treestand.
bigjim

[Trumpkin the Dwarf]

I would like to chime in here. I draw 32 inches and my bow is only 62 inches long. While it may be "smoother" to shoot a longer bow, a lot of bows continue drawing without stacking till 31 inches or so. This may not be intentional by the bow maker but the only problem long draw guys have with a 60" or 62" bow is finger pinch(which can be eliminated by shooting two under).
A 64" bow should be fine at your draw length. I would suggest that you might need to practice a lot more than you think. Accuracy stems from consistently good form. Dropping weight will still require good form to be accurate. Also, a lower weight bow actually requires better form as the release is easier to fudge.

[kat]

Take a video of yourself shooting and post it on this site. Terry and others generally will comment on it, and you can earn a lot.

Dropping weight will also change your release. It is more difficult to have a smooth and clean release at a lower weight unless you have really good form.

[8Crow]

You guys didn't disappoint, thank you.  I know I need a lot of practice, no doubt about it.  I've just had the nagging feeling that I should get a lighter bow and I've been wondering if it would help me get more consistent, and in turn, more accurate, faster.

I certainly don't have the money to spend or the time to start the whole process over again right now, so it is nice to see most of you say, "just stick with it and practice".  Several times in a practice session, I will manage to stack a handful  of arrows right where I want them--literally all touching.  Then for the next 10 minutes I'll spray them all over the place and it frustrates me to no end, thinking, "Why can't I stack them every time?  Clearly my mind and body know how."  I try to concentrate on re-creating the same form, but you all know how many variables there are and how easy it is to change even one of them ever so slightly.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

I just keep wondering if I'd see dramatic improvement in my form if I had a little lighter and longer bow...maybe 40# @ 28" so I was pulling around 45-46# at full draw. And maybe more like 66-68" so the stack wasn't so bad?


1) The money
2) Is it wise to learn a new bow in the middle of hunting season?
3) Will I be able to use the same arrows, practice tips and broadheads? (if not, more money)
4) Would it really be worth all the effort for 5-6# less?

The only thing that will give you a "Dramatic Improvement" in your accuracy is practicing. with consistency, you shall prevail.

the answer to all 3 questions above is no....

the only advantage to picking up a cheap lighter weight bow. and i mean 10 pounds lighter, is that that lighter weight requires a much more consistent release. it's a lot harder getting off the string smooth on a lighter weight bow.... it;s good training to use a lighter bow and concentrate on getting off the string smooth.... it will help you get off your hunting  weight bow smoother too.

i always shot much better at 57-60 pounds than i ever did at 45-50 pounds. and i know it was due to a more consistent release.......

BUT..... and i say But.... i found that lowering my poundage gave me the ability to hold at full draw more comfortably for longer periods of time. with the heavier bows i never held at full draw more than a moment.....and if i tried to hold my heavier bows at full draw too long my accuracy suffered considerably.

i dropped from 57-58#'s down to 52-53#'s and it took a lot of practice learning to hold longer and still get off the string smooth...But I'd say it was definitely worth it to me.... it's increased my confidence and shooting consistency a lot....

the length of the bow and finger pinch, or stacking, can definitely effect your consistency,
but all bows are not created equally in those departments. i could send you a 60" bow that build that pulls smooth as butter clear out to 32" with no finger pinch at all.... i could also send you a 62" bow that stacks like cord wood at 28.5" and make your fingers go numb at 31"....

bottom line is i think you are just fine where you are at.... practice will get you where you want to go...

now if you ever get to the point you want a shorter bow to hunt with that pulls smooth for you. give me a shout. i can fix you up.   kirk

[Forrest Halley]

Originally posted by 8Crow:
Several times in a practice session, I will manage to stack a handful  of arrows right where I want them--literally all touching.  Then for the next 10 minutes I'll spray them all over the place and it frustrates me to no end, thinking, "Why can't I stack them every time?  Clearly my mind and body know how."  I try to concentrate on re-creating the same form, but you all know how many variables there are and how easy it is to change even one of them ever so slightly.

Sounds like you're practicing beyond the point of diminishing returns. I have learned to stop when accuracy deteriorates or fatigue sets in. You're practicing for one good cold shot, not a hundred. Shoot as many arrows as you can control and puts where you want. When the focus or form fades, rest a while. Right now I'm out of shape for my bow. The season is fast approaching. I'm not worried because I am turning in a good first few shots. I practice each day and take only good shots. My accuracy is improving as is my stamina. You will be alright. Relax and enjoy the bow you have and the challenge it presents you.

[Steelhead]

31" is a very long draw.
I think you are gonna want a bow that unfolds very smoothly that last couple inches for shooting comfort and a sense of ralaxation when shooting.

I do believe you would be better off with a bow of around 45 #s at your draw to work on your form till its ingrained in your body and conscious and unconscious mind.You will be able to shoot many more arrows without strain or fatique physically and mentally.I think it will help you with having a very consistant anchor and maintaining your back trension and help get  a dynamic release with a good follow through and rock solid bow arm that dioesn't wonder and may keep you from possibly devloping symptoms of target panic that could haunt you for years.

With your long draw 45#s is gonna be like someone with a shorter draw shooting a heavier bow as far as energy imparted to the arrow.so you have plenty of power and extra cast for hunting most game in that lighter poundage.

You can add point weight to your currant arrows to soften the spine and get to them to possibly work out of a lighter bow.

With your currant bow marked 46 #s you could be pulling 54 #s or more if it stacks?I would less arrows and spread your practice sessions further apart so  your always fresh and at full stength.I think you will have better practice that way.Concentrate more on each arrow and shoot less instead of shooting many and possibly compromising your form and concentration that can lead to scattering arrows.

I agree with picking up a CD or something like Masters of the Barebow volume 2 or 3 to make sure you are using correct from as dont go down the wrong path in your quest for shooting accurracy.Its hard to break bad habits!!!

[duncan idaho]

Consistent training and practice, whether you shoot a 40# or 80# are the keys to accuracy.

[ddauler]

Looks like you got a lot of great info. The moebow1 videos are good.