String Follow Help me understand...

[DesertDude]

Please teach me about it, help me understand why bows are built with it....etc....

Thank you  DD

[dragonheart]

Forgiving, not for speed.

[Ben Maher]

I have shot some wonderful Hills style bows over the years ... some with a fair whack of reflex , some straight laid and some with prestressed string follow built in . I love them all !

However , the straight limb imho, has more 'recoil"/"bump"/"responce" than other bows of the curvier variety .... bows of which I might add I own lots of .

But to me the finest hunting bows I own are "Hill" style bows .. I love them and have taken a few critters with them ... the 'string follow' in a glassed version of this bow , whether taken as a slight 'set' from a a straight laid' bow or pre stressed  gives me all the wonderful qualities of all the Hill style bows but without what I consider the  negatives .

I get less "responce" at the shot and they are uber uber quiet . Also as a result of less "responce" at the shot I can use lighter arrows of 9-10gns which I prefer as I don't overly love having to shooting logs .
I also find them somewhat more 'forgiving' ... I know that it is somewhat indefinable as a trait , but to me the proof is in not only how much I enjoy shooting them but my arrows seem to find the mark on some shots where from my other bows may not as much ...
if that makes any sense .

Its all pretty subjective ...

But I love 'em !

[Orion]

What Ben said.  "Response" can be translated to mean hand shock.

[Ben Maher]

yep ...

[wtpops]

What is string follow? Can someone describe the act or define it for me? Thank you.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Ahhhhh.... but the shape of a bow before it is strung can be deceiving using modern composites.    

The term "string follow" was originally considered a verb, and still is for self bowyer's and board bows built from wood without fiberglass backing.
it's the act of an unbraced straight limb bow following the string and taking a set which comes out with a slight deflex shape. These bows have come to be known as string follow bows.

i see absolutely no reason why this would be a desirable trait for a bow besides personal preference, unless it was a higher poundage bow with a good tight string at brace.

i think a std string follow design under 45 pounds would be worthless unless the bowyer had his working limb shortened to pick up enough preload during brace to stop the limb clean..... Note:  This is only my personal opinion.

btw.... preload at brace effects a lighter arrow much more than a heavier one too....

i'd love to get some high speed video of a string follow bow shooting 700 grains and 400 grains.

[Orion]

Look at most self bows.  When you unstring them, some look like they're still partially strung.  That is, the limbs remain bent back toward the belly side of the bow, toward the archer.  That is string follow.  The limbs "follow" the string.  

It tends to occur naturally in most selfbows.  It usually has to be designed into the form on glass laminated bows.  However, sometimes Hill style bows that start out perfectly straight from one end to the other, may develop a little string follow through use, but that's rare with a glass laminated bow.

[Hud]

If we can agree there are differences between an all wood self bow and a laminated bow with glass then it is easier to understand there are differences between an all bamboo bow (laminated) in different styles (string-follow, straight limb or backset) and a glass bow of the same design.

In my experience the string follow tends to increase in weight, because it feels easier to pull at the beginning. The distance to full draw is shorter than a glass bow and it will increase more in lbs/inch to full draw. Similar to a self bow. An all bamboo with straight limbs is a compromise between a glass bow with backset and a string follow without glass.

The only way to know is to shoot several together. otherwise, contact the manufacturer you like and ask their opinion.

IMO, they each have slight differences. I like them and find the string-follow a bit easier to shoot. The more backset there is in a given bow, the more I notice the recoil, or handshock.

The first modern longbow I bought was a 69" Howard Hill, bow of 72# with 1 1/2" of backset. The dealer in CA said, to get a hold of the bow. I know he shot them with Howard, but what he probably meant was to heel the bow, not grip it tight. As for hand shock it rates a 10 and a string-follow a 3. Everything else is in between, IMO.

[Ben Maher]

Originally posted by Kirkll:
 


i see absolutely no reason why this would be a desirable trait for a bow besides personal preference, unless it was a higher poundage bow with a good tight string at brace.

i think a std string follow design under 45 pounds would be worthless unless the bowyer had his working limb shortened to pick up enough preload during brace to stop the limb clean..... Note:  This is only my personal opinion.

btw.... preload at brace effects a lighter arrow much more than a heavier one too....

Kirk makes some valid points ... and yep is much about personal opinion and preference . I have one bow , with a touch of string follow that seems to shoot as flat as my reflexed bows [ Whippenstick] , the others are slower ... but at hunting ranges I find the difference is negligible , outweighed by the lack of whack

I'd also add that when I order my String follow longbows  they are ordered 2" shorter than there reflexed counterparts ... so maybe I make yup for performance with that ? maybe ?
greater minds than mine would know !

except for my next one which will be long and low poundage as I bring back some style to Field Archery

Not all string follows bows are equal from my limited experience with them.  We made a few back in the 70s, with about 3/4" of follow. My own were slower than our reflexed longbows, soft in hand and very accurate. Recently I had a chance to shoot three newer string follow bows, they were all slightly different in feel, although none had enough shock to worry about. Oddly the one with the least hand shock was the fastest of the three. Two of of them had a little more than my current reflexed longbows, which have no more shock than my r/d bows, virually zero. Thanks to a fast flight string on one and the others are lean and mean deer killing wands. It seems that in a string follow bow it is important to be absolutely honest about ones draw length and order the bow accordingly. All too often someone with long upright recurve form will get a longbow and expect their draw to be the same and then bust their butt  with a longbow to equal it, only later to conform to a somewhat shorter draw with the straight gripped longbow and end up with a bow that is too long for the users draw.  I do think that the chances of having a reflexed bow with more shock and vibration that could distract the shooter is more likely than with a string follow, but there are some that do not, even with identical models. A padded fast flight string can cover a lot of ills at times. I suspect that there is fine line between a perfect shooting longbow that is effective at the users draw and one that has too much unused limb to carry at the end of the cast. I had every intention of getting a reverse longbow this year, but instead I decided to not fix what is not broken and stick with what I have and I bought a new Filson coat instead and a bunch of tapered cedar arrow shafts and broadheads.  My own personal preference for very lean and mean reflexed bows is my own and your experience may differ, but the arrow is still the most important part of any longbow.

[**DONOTDELETE**]

Yup Ben... you know why your string follow bow shoots as flat as your others?  it's that Ken understands the dynamics of getting the most out of a limb, and takes the time to balance those limbs out where they are working in concert and make those limbs stop clean without flopping around.

I'll bet there is literally no hand shock in that bow at all. The statement made that "The bows with the least amount of hand shock perform the best" is because the energy is being transferred to the arrow shaft instead of back into the riser.

a higher poundage string follow bow is going to be more efficient because the string is tigher at brace and is stopping the limb mass cleaner.  The ratio of limb mass to preload gets out of whack on lower poundage bows if the mass weight of the limb moving forward is not reduced in equal portions... It's true that a string follow bow has a shorter power stroke, and has less early weight than an R/D long bow. but the performance differences on this type of bow is going to vary a lot with draw weight and limb design

That is exactly the point i was making when i said the shape of a bow unbraced can be deceiving using modern composites.

Sixby has a new string follow bow out now that I'm dying to test out. He's another guy who understands limb dynamics and how to get good performance out of a limb.  kirk

[ron w]

I have a Hill Halfbreed sting follow and it's just a nice smooth shooting bow, almost silent and just a slight thump at the release. I also have a string follow Apex/Cumberland.....same thing.

[Ralphie]

I picked up a 50# string follow Miller bow , his "Sage" model.
When it was first offered to me I was reluctant to buy it, because 45-47# was always the top of what was comfortable for me.
But the bow was beautiful, and it was my first chance to try a string follow profile.
Wow!
drawing the 50# Sage was easier than I expected. The limbs being bent towards me removed any pre stress, I would have had to pull past to draw the bow.and the release was a bit smoother, than either my Miller 45# "Old Tom", or the Hill Tembo 45#, I had at the time.
I can say the string follow Sage is not as fast shooting as the Old Tom. It is not as fast, nor not as flat shooting, as any Hill-style bow with any degree of backset, (the opposite of string follow), put into the limbs.
But it is great fun to shoot !


So-called "hand shock" so often mentioned alongside HIll-style bows.... (to me .....),  .....  is not "shock" at all, but rather a sort of "recoil", which goes with the design. The "thump" your hand feels, should talk to you.
It is only uncomfortable (so-called "shock"), when the shooter uses improper hand/grip placement.
Whatever it is .... it is smoother with a string follow bow.


Different bowyers will offer different versions of string follow. the effects will be all different.

 in short ...... String follow is worth trying.

[Bob B.]

I will start by admitting I am no expert so I suppose I offer my opinion rather than fact.

I like string follow because (to me) it seems to have an easier, smoother draw in the first several inches.  The second thing I like is, (again to me), it seems to be gentler on release.  I assume I shoot a string follow a bit better because of this.  

Lastly, I like them because the Thump at the end of the power stroke is more mild, in fact as I am used to shooting them, I can not say I notice the thump or hand shock at all.

All this said, all bows are not created equal.  I have a N.M. Shelton.  I do not think there is any hand shock.  It has more "follow" than my Shrew Hill.  It is smoother but it also has a bit longer riser ... not sure if that matters much or not.  The N.M. Shelton shoots as fast a back set bow yet still feels smoother on the draw and realse (in my opinion).  The Shrew Hill has much less "follow", but still has such a smooth easy draw and a hint of a thump on release, but not nothing harsh.  I find I enjoy the little thump.

That is why I like string follow.

Bob.

[PaulRoberts]

Hmmmmm.. Don't want to be argumentative here but I'll go ahead and state what I've come to understand. Maybe some of you can bring me back on course.

There is little to be gained from string follow -except maybe to "soften the blow" of a poorly designed or crafted bow.

String follow is an artifact of wood stress and most bowyers strive to avoid it. String follow does not happen on glass lam bows, and no one builds it in either. Deflex in a glass lam bow is not the same thing, as reflex is always built in to restore that early draw string tension.

If a bow is properly balanced in terms of tiller and mass placement, it should not produce much hand shock. The goal then lies in correcting those problem areas; certainly not adding string follow.

"Forgiving". I've read that, but cannot speak to it bc I don't have two identical bows, one with one without string follow to test group size. I think I'd prefer the speed offered by the early draw tension. If I want to "slow things down" in terms of response time, couldn't I use a heavier arrow? (Which is an advantage too.)

[redant 60/65]

This is a good topic Dude I have never really thought about string follow bows and I'm not sure yet if I understand, but I'll keep following along.  

[Nate Steen .]

not all string follow bows are the same.  to get maximum performance there is a blending of many factors.  I've built only string follow Hillstyle longbows for almost 20 years and based on my research into the true Hill style american semilongbow here's what they offer.....

softer recoil on the bow due to no prestress in the limb which leads to softer shooting, less jumpy bows.

easier pulling because the weight builds later in the draw (in the inches pulled) and that lets the drawing shoulder get further back which lets the bigger muscles handle the weight.

softer on the draw....straight line force draw 'curve'...on my bows the weight gain is 2#/inch starting at 12" and going to 1" past shooters draw length. smoothest bow pull possible due to that trait. (there again, not all string follow bows are equal)

fast as straight limb or some reflexed limb due to proper limb tillering and composition....most of my customers state that my bows are faster than their current reflexed favorite semilongbow.  (that could be due to proper tiller and sizing for their draw length)

forgiveness is another word for a smooth forward motion of the limbs working in proper unison to hit brace height at the same time, resulting in a less 'shocky', 'jumpy', 'jarring' bow.

proper tillering and timing is a result of matching the bow length, taper, handle length, etc to the shooter's exact dynamic shooting specs....not just what they think those specs are when they are statically drawing the bow.

[Jeff Strubberg]

String follow has a couple of positives and one fairly large negative...selfbow bowyers fight to avoid string follow for a reason.

String follow robs performance.  You reduce the preload of the bow at brace height, meaning you are effectively pulling a lighter bow for those first few inches of draw and those last few inches of string travel after release.

String follow makes for a very comfortable shooting bow because the limbs are slowing down long before they bottom out at the end of the shot.

String follow bows also tend to be very forgiving to tune.  They don't bottom out as far at the end of the shot, meaning the arrow doesn't have to flex as much to clear the riser.  They also shoot slower, so it takes less to stabilize an arrow and small changes in draw length and such have a lesser effect on the shot.


Like everything else in bow design, it's a trade off.  If you want the arrow to go faster, you can make that happen.  If you do, everything else, tune, brace and form, become more critical.  You can slow things down, too.  String follow is one way to accomplish that.

[PaulRoberts]

Originally posted by sunset hill:
 ...on my bows the weight gain is 2#/inch starting at 12" and going to 1" past shooters draw length. smoothest bow pull possible due to that trait. (there again, not all string follow bows are equal)
[/qb]

This tells me the bow is long ntn, whether it follows the string or not.

 

Originally posted by Jeff Strubberg:
String follow makes for a very comfortable shooting bow because the limbs are slowing down long before they bottom out at the end of the shot.

This seems to make sense.

I wonder if, would guess that, bows with low mass at the handle and longer limbs too I suppose, would be more comfortable to shoot with some string follow. The main reason for added mass at the handle/riser, and stabilizers, in more modern designs (think modern recurves, esp on an Olympic target line) is to absorb shock as well as stabilize aiming.