String Follow Help me understand...

[swampthing]

String-follow all-wood bows, nothing shoots like them. On a glass bow, string-follow helps you get closer to what a wood bow feels like. Closer? Yes, but not quite. Here is the polar oposite of string follow. On a glass bow I would go with backset. Limb timing is limb timing, get it right and you got it.  

[7 Lakes]

I hate to say it but after reading this I may get the chronograph back out and do some checking.  

I like the S/F bows mostly because it's easier on my shoulder to draw it.  I'm also much more accurate although I admit that may be mental.

[Ben Maher]

I think Nate summed up my experience quite well .
I have a couple of bows that have a lot of reflex , they sure do throw an arrow and I wouldn't suggest for a minute that they are shooting the same speeds as my SF bows ... the reflex bows are faster ...

And I agree that handshock can be somewhat negated by good tillering ...

But I still feel the string follow bows allow me to shoot my Hill style bows better as there is less recoil , the loss of speed at hunting distances is neglibible , and for a full day on the Field range , the less 'recoil/pleasant thump the better over 112 arrows .

NoteI am only referring to Hill style bows and the diffreneces I find between SF and reflex . Aussie bowyer Jeff Challacombe's bows have a dose of reflex and they are super sweet to shoot , hands down great feeling bows ... and they are fast for their basic Hill design . They shoot really well for with 10-12gns pp arrows

My Miller , My Whippenstick and my Belchers all lie 10 - 12gns pp ... but also seem to react well with my preferred 9gns pp .... and at 9gns pp my reflex Hill style bows tend to let me know about after a few hrs shooting

[PaulRoberts]

Originally posted by Ben Maher:

But I still feel the string follow bows allow me to shoot my Hill style bows better as there is less recoil , the loss of speed at hunting distances is neglibible , and for a full day on the Field range , the less 'recoil/pleasant thump the better over 112 arrows .

OK, I'm understanding things better. String follow helps make Hill style, the traditional selfbow design, and I suppose any small/light handle bows, shoot smoother.

Good discussion all.

[DesertDude]

A couple questions come to mind,

1. does the limb core wood matter more or less with SF glass bows?

2. is there a rule of lenght of bow for certin draw lenghts?

3. Does string type make alot of differences?
(I understand how it reacts on R/d style bows)

I shoot a 64" Liberty contender 56# @ 28"   with the way SF draws would I still shoot the same weight?

Thank you for all the responces

[ScouterMike]

Nate described the string follow advantage perfectly. I have a shoulder issue and the draw characteristics of the string follow bows are a huge  help, allowing me to shoot more weight and many more arrows.

[Ben Maher]

Desertdude ... and this is just my opinion but I can pull my SF' bows a bit easier . As Nate alluded to though , that may just be because they have better tiller jobs ?

[Sixby]

If you look at the thread , The EagleWing Has Landed , you can see a string follow bow that is not strung. when you look at the limbs you will see that they are bent towards the shooter. Hense toward the string before the bow is strung. Its really that simple./ As to the shooting./ Well its one of those things that has to be experienced to understand the reason so many people love them.

God bless, Steve

[**DONOTDELETE**]

The main reason for added mass at the handle/riser, and stabilizers, in more modern designs (think modern recurves, esp on an Olympic target line) is to absorb shock as well as stabilize aiming.  

i have to disagree with this statement Paul. The mass of the riser definitely helps stability, and the stabilizers are for balance in the hand. It has nothing to do with absorbing shock.

The limbs on an OLY rig are timed to perfection and there would be no hand shock....even if the riser was lighter weight there would be no hand shock.

Getting back to s/f bows.... Nate nailed the description to a tee but left out the part about string tension at brace, or preload.

besides limb timing, which is a critical part of getting a shock free bow. the string needs enough tension at brace to stop the forward motion of the limbs and transfer that stored energy to the arrow shaft.this is critical when shooting lighter weight bows with lighter weight shafts.

if you are measuring the arrows performance by using a chronograph, a reflexed limb with a higher preload (more string tension)will most always be faster if they are balanced correctly.

A straight bow with long limbs and a short handle, as well as most string follow bows, (Not all) has more mass in the limbs coming forward, and typically not enough preload at a 6-6,5" brace to stop the forward momentum of the limb.That's where the hand shock, or that "Hill thump" comes from, even on a perfectly timed limb.

Now this is the interesting part.... The efficiency of the bow itself on a s/f bow, or a straight bow will rise with heavier arrows, and seriously decline with lighter weight shafts....

i'm not talking feet per second on the arrow, I'm talking about the percentage of stored energy in the limbs being transferred to the shaft instead of staying in the limb and flopping around.

These bows are naturally going to shoot a slower arrow, but have the ability to shoot much heavier shafts which transfers more of the stored energy to the arrow and leaves less hand shock.

ok.... Where all this changes is when you start talking about string follow bows and hill style bows where the poundage is up to 60-70 pounds at 28".  the string tension at a low brace is much higher and stops the forward motion of the limb mass cleaner.....

There are ways to accomplish this with glass and carbon backed SF and straight limbed bows of lighter poundage to increase performance and eliminate hand shock..... but i wont go into it.

bottom line is trhat all bows are not created equally, regardless of design categories.


Great thread here guys!    

[DesertDude]

Very Interesting information.....Thank you

[cahaba]

Great info. Steve Turay of Northern Mist Longbows said his string follow bows don't lose any speed or cast as compaired to his backset bows. I think he even states this on his website.
He is one of the best Hill style bowyers around.
My Classic he made has very little if any handshock. I can't feel any.

[far rider]

Wow, who knew right? This is a very interesting thread, and sheds a lot of light on Hill style bows and the performance aspects of them. Thanks!

[Pat B.]

I have one of Steve's string follow bows and it's great. No handshock and to my eye it is as quick as any other bow of equal poundage. I couldn't be happier with it's feel and performance.

I also have a couple of Hill string follow bows and they are very pleasing as well. Personally I don't see any downside to the string follow bows and they satisfy my quest for tradition while providing superb performance..

[PaulRoberts]

Ah! I can see now I’ve been talking oranges and others, apples. I’m a selfbowyer, and I make and shoot bows below 60# draw weight. “String follow” to me is a verb, as Kirk put it.

Thanks all for a great discussion.

   

Originally posted by Kirkll:
…
besides limb timing, which is a critical part of getting a shock free bow. the string needs enough tension at brace to stop the forward motion of the limbs and transfer that stored energy to the arrow shaft. this is critical when shooting lighter weight bows with lighter weight shafts.
…

Thank you for that post, Kirk. Great explanation overall.

I am not a "target shooter" but from what I've read one of the stated functions of stabilizers is to "reduce hand shock, bow noise and vibration." I suppose it is possible that this function is not as much an issue with top quality bows. But we hunters and rovers are not always shooting perfectly timed bows.

Limb timing is something I have difficulty with as an all wood selfbowyer, in which no two limbs are the same. To keep shock at bay I aim for perfect tiller (despite what imperfections the given stave presents), keep mass off the tips, and employ a rigid, longer and more massive handle compared to the classic selfbow design. I try to keep SF to a minimum, for performance reasons as I will take all I can get.

BTW, your bows are beautiful. I esp like the Sasquatch.