Bad new from Utah for nonresidents

[Rick McGowan]

I guess Utah is following the trend of milking nonresident hunters for all they can. They will next year require you to buy a $64 licence BEFORE you apply for any draws and also pay $10 per species applied for. I have been applying there for many years and hate to lose the points I have payed for, but I didn't mind paying $5 for a tiny CHANCE at getting drawn. I do refuse to pay $74 for a slightly less tiny chance at getting drawn.

[hill boy]

I'm afraid this is going to be  practice followed by many states.It's just an unfair tax.More money they can spend be unresponsible for.  :mad:

[bohuntr]

That sucks Rick!!! I have points in Utah and this will definitely make me carefully evaluate whether I am going to apply again in the future. I quit applying in Arizona due to the same type of system.

[JEFF B]

man you guys have got it bad. over here we dont have that sort of thing mind you we dont have the amount of game as you guys as maf is killing every thing off because of the clean green image and the bloody tree huggers.
wolfman

[Flatstick]

Dang I hate to hear that! I've been building points for Utah also. I guess I'm gonna have to use what I've got because I don't like the sounds of spending $74.00 just to get another point. My hopes was to be drawn for one of the hard to get areas for a chance at one of those monster mulies they have out there.

[steadman]

You are right , this is a bummer. But as mentioned before it just follows suit. If anyone needs help out here when they draw (I still haven't) please feel free to PM me.
 This way of life is becoming more and more expensive. Good luck to everyone this year.

[the Ferret]

The amazing thing is non residents will keep applying no matter how much they jack up the rates. Wish everyone would stay home for the next two years and see what would happen.

[O.L. Adcock]

Oh Ferret, It wouldn't make any difference. I can't say as I blame them, I've got excellent elk hunting 1 hour drive away and haven't drawn a tag in like 6 years now. We have to draw for deer also. So we have very limited opportunities compared to you guys and non-residents reduces those chances further....O.L.

[Strutter]

I bet they will see a huge decrease in non resident apps.  I know I wouldn't pay it and I don't think most working americans will either.  Maybe the rich but not the working class.  Time will tell.

Rob

[OkieJ]

In Oklahoma they did this and it just leveled the playing field for everyone. Used to be nonresidents didn't have to have a lic, to apply while residents did. Also they said it weeds out the peta people applying since it went too 100% computer apps. There was no drop in apps and several nonrresidents draw the big MCAA hunt here which I thinks is great.

[hill boy]

Well, what is bad O.L. is instead of purchasing more property for publc hunting , it will go toward somthing that doesn't help the cause for the increase to start with.I realize I'm preaching to the quire but dad gum it's a bummer.I don't even have any points out there.And it upsets me,And won't now.

[BradLantz]

on monstermuleys.com there is a long discussion on resident vs non-resident right/license/fees etc

ongoing, archived, and active threads

The fact is, each State owns the wildlife in it. Thats been decided by literally hundreds of court cases. Doesn't matter any about those animals being on federal lands, the state owns them. Because of that, there are no federal laws to my knowledge regulating HOW the states divy those animals between residents and non-residents.

Wasn't it only 1999 when Kansas allowed non-res at all ? Now we're looking at maybe unlimited tags in 2008 !

I do know that upwards to 60% and even 70% of some western states revenue comes from one source - nonresident licensing. Take that away and I submit that those G&F commissions would face bankruptcy, and closure.

I lived out west, I kinda understand how they feel like they should have privy to the game. They should too. But the incredible differences in prices on licenses is outrageous.

The western states have used non-resident money to built a great herd of game, and now ? They are outprice those who paid for it

[O.L. Adcock]

Hill Boy, 60% of our state is already public, probably double the size of Arkansas. It's all a matter of numbers. Only so many critters to go around and too many wanting them. OkieJ, Yep, I apply for big Mac every year. What we need to do is encourage weapon restrictions......O.L.

[mikecc]

The plus side to this is it will make the bull elk tags less of a once in a lifetime opportunity for real dedicated sportsman. Instead of one guy putting in his whole family for points and only spending $50 he'll have to look at the big picture and probably just put himself in and leave everyone else out, some of whom didn't know they were getting put in for points in the first place. I'd gladly pay $200 for a chance to draw one of our monster bull tags. Mike

[Nate Fikkert]

Mikecc brings up a good point, it should level the playing field a bit.  But it is ridiculous.  I lived in Wyoming for several years and even before that had started to accumulate sheep and moose points.  I am getting to the point where it would be dumb to drop out of the game, BUT, now that I am a non-resident they want $100 for a sheep point and $75 for a moose point.  What would you do?

As O.L. says, so many guys will pay it, it doesn't really matter.  I quess if you can afford to stay in it might pay to try for at least a couple more years and see what happens to the draw odds after the price increase.  

The other option, not to justify the high price, would be to come out for an over the counter deer hunt, or elk hunt in the general/spike cow areas.  That way you get a hunt out of the deal, spend about $250-$350 on the NR deer or elk tag, and then your point only costs you $10.  Just a thought, and it may give you a chance to learn that LE area a bit before you draw that premium tag.

Nathan

[snag]

I certainly don't agree with the increase. It does make this type of dream hunt hard to justify for someone like a WWII vet on a fixed income or a young guy trying to raise a family. There are a lot of hard working people that this just pushed them out of the running. But, there are more guys that are going to keep on putting there money up. I don't think it will reduce the apps by even 20%. With the money they will gain it will far out weigh the ones not applying. All states will be doing this eventually.

[BradLantz]

Arkansas has 2,439,600 national forest acres

I'm guessing New Mexico has 1/3 if not more, heck the Gila is like 1.5 million isn't it ?


A G&F is suppose to maximize the opportunity of the sportsman while keeping a growing game population. Thats what they're there for.

I think out west, the G&F has lost that goal, I really do. They don't maximze opportunity, because of all the draws and quotas and extreme pricing.


Just for one year, I'd like to see all non-residents stay away from western states. The economic impact would be incredible. G&F would go bankrupt, businesses like meat processing plants, taxidermists, outfitters and to a lesser degree sporting goods stores, restraunts, lodging etc would feel big stings because of it. Hundreds of millions if not billions in revenue would be lost.


Would that be a big enough wake up call ?

[mikecc]

What alot of folks don't understand is how the land is managed. In Utah and I'm sure a few other western states the cattleman assoc. are very involved with animal numbers and the land can only support so much game. Right now in Utah the DNR is coming up with ways to increase deer and elk numbers and offer more hunting opportunity but their hands are tied as to how many game animals the land will hold and how many the cattleman assoc. will allow to roam on the range because they feel the cattle and sheep have first dibs on the grazing in the forest. Not to mention the fact that Utah's winter range is shrinking more each day to development. While they did raise the price of a point I beleive the cost of the tag went down a bit. I know the res. gen elk tag went from $65 to $45. In the busy world we all live in it's just going to keep getting more expensive to play.

[Rick McGowan]

I think snag hit it exactly. I can only see one reason for this kind of thing and its to get nonresidents to pay more. The price for me to apply for one species has gone up almost 1500%, even if 9 out of 10 nonresidents don't reapply they will still take in more money. For some guys that amount of money is nothing to them and they will be happy to see since it will improve their odds. Regardless of all the reasons that people want to use to justify, money is the only one. Its not going to change anything else, they will still give out the same number of nr tags, they will still have same number come to UTAH. I don't know if the nr tags are going to drop in price or not and it dosn't really matter since I have been applying for MANY years and have never been drawn and the odds are I never will. I really hate to lose all those points I've already paid for, but I'm not going to support this kind of blatant ripoff, so I won't spend another penny in Utah.

[John Nail]

just one more step toward european style leases and elite hunters.
When it's about money, it weeds a lot of folks out.