Single Bevel Broadheads and Rotation

[The Hawk]

I shot some single bevels through a small steel propane tank, not the same as ribs I know. But, to my surprise the edge rolled over and the head only penetrated one side of the tank.  A Zwickey Eskimo punched right through both sides and still had an edge. How much energy or penetration do you give up by the friction causing the rotation? The thickness of the blades? I shot one elk with a single bevel and didn't have great penetration. I think the thicker blades impeded the penetration. I personally want a artery slicer, not a bone chisel. At least on this continent. That being said, I'm not a doctor, I just like to play doctor!  I could be completely wrong!  

[FarmerMarley]

Thanks for posting the link to those videos. I'm watching the whole presentation now!

[kbetts]

When I shoot any broadhead into foam, two or three blade, it is easy to see that the cuts have a twist or rotation to them.  These are all double bevel.

I keep hearing about the "s" from single bevel heads, but I see it plenty with the others.  Am I missing something?

[Steve O]

Originally posted by kbetts:
When I shoot any broadhead into foam, two or three blade, it is easy to see that the cuts have a twist or rotation to them.  These are all double bevel.

I keep hearing about the "s" from single bevel heads, but I see it plenty with the others.  Am I missing something?

Yes.

You are seeing residual spinning from the fletching on the double bevel head.  When a double bevel enters an object, the force on both sides of the blade is equal.  I will try to compare these to parts of a Super Cub you are taking to your moose drop off spot.  The double bevel is just like the wheel of the Super Cub.  When you are flying, the force of the wind going around the wheel is equal on the top and bottom, therefore the wheel, even though it is on a free wheeling ball bearing, sits perfectly still.

The single bevel has different forces on it, like the wing of the Super Cub.  This produces the rotation of the broadhead similar to the lift on the plane's wing keeping you airborne.

To prove this to yourself, take a double bevel and single bevel head and push it into meat or foam with your hand and allow the head to follow it's own path and compare. You will find the double bevel goes straight in with no roatation about the axis of the shaft and the single bevel will go straight in WITH rotation about the axis of the shaft.

It is all physics and physics does not change.

[fujimo]

ok- so the million dollar question- which are the best single bevel  broadheads Then?
those tuffheads do look awesome- but they all seem a tad heavy for what i like

[captain caveman]

So single bevel has inherent benefits. I Like the 3:1 ratio of tuff head just would like a screw on head to avoid alignment issues with broadbed adapters.  Looks like the largest vpa is approaching the same shape.  I just don't feel like my snuffers will ever be able to be sharpened to the level of single bevel two  blade.  Only concern with large two blade is planing in wind.  May be stupid question but if I'm aiming at heart lung region do I want my broadhead veering as it courses through flesh?  In market for this style broadhead thanks for info let's keep discussion going.

[Steve O]

Originally posted by fujimo:
ok- so the million dollar question- which are the best single bevel  broadheads Then?
those tuffheads do look awesome- but they all seem a tad heavy for what i like

Yep, Tuffheads look top notch.  I am partial to Abowyers because I have been to the shop many times and have seen how they are made and have used them and have seen how well they work first hand.  See here:

   Abowyer Tour

[Bjorn]

I agree when it comes to single bevel Abowyer Brown Bears are top notch-for us they have been killer on Hogs and Elk.

[fujimo]

those glue on brown bears sure do look good!!

[FarmerMarley]

Ok, so that Ashby presentation on YOutube sure convinced me of single bevels effectiveness. I'm planning on using them for my pig hunts this winter. However, since I'm getting ready for some turkey hunting coming up soon I'm wondering about 2 blade single bevel BHs for Turkeys? Ashby didn't do tests on turkeys did he (or ostriches in Africa?!)

Is there an anatomical difference with birds (turkey in particular) that would change the balance between which head is more preferred for consistent lethal shots?

Previously I have been planning on using some VPA 250gn 3 blades or big Snuffers, subscribing to the idea that more cutting area on turkey gives you a bigger margin of error for hitting the small vitals. I have been reading through Guru and other turkey hunter's posts trying to plan my setup and up until now I have been pretty set on 3 blades. But maybe the single bevels rotation, "s" shaped hole, superior penetration, and the crazy "starburst" tissue damage effect will compensate for fewer blades?

What do you all think? How does this single bevel stuff apply to gobblers?

[Steve O]

I can't think of any reason I would use anything other than a BIG Snuffer on a turkey. Unless you are a 2 blade for everything kind of guy.

[killinstuff]

Steve, wouldn't it be fun to be a "picker" in that shop? I picked up a riser from Larry a few years back and one, I wanted to run the CNC machine and two I wanted to look in the corners and behind this and that looking for cool stuff.

But in the end I'm in the Charlie Lamb group. Hunt Sharp and all is good.

CJ

[FarmerMarley]

Steve,
I'm a newbie and have yet to take a turkey but from all I have read on here and have reasoned to myself in my brain is telling me to stick with a big 3blade. But,... I still want to hear from anyone who has used single bevel 2 blades on turkey. Just curious.

[TxAg]

Marrley, if it helps...i just shot a turkey this year with the bow I just sold you. It was a 515 gr arrow with a double bevel Ace head.  Broke bones and sliced through like the turkey wasn't there.

From what I understand, a single bevel would do even better.

[The Hawk]

What have you guys shooting single bevel broadheads been seeing? Are you getting the "L" shaped cuts? Do you think you are getting better blood trails? Has anyone shot through the shoulder blade of a deer or an elk? If people are getting better blood and quicker kills, I would try them again. Thanks.

[fujimo]

the ultimate question hawk- i will be watching this thread- i am also on the cusp of switching over- currently just switched from two blades to wensel woodsmans.

[L82HUNT]

I've killed 3 this year with single bevels 1 with a tuff head and 2 with a standard 160 grizz. Both shots with the grizz where perfect. 1 was quartering toward me entered top of shoulder flat and exited ribs. Arrow never slowed down with a 50 lb bow and 645 grain arrow. 2 was perfect broadside just thru ribs no problem

  The doe I shot with the tuff head was a bad shot. She was broadside and when I released she took a step.  I hit her in liver and gut.  She took off maybe 50 yd and stopped.  Stood a minute then laid down.  Laid a minute then just went over to her side.   This deer never kicked "something I have never seen after 70 + deer with a bow"
 When I gutted her, her insides where black. I'm guessing from a mixture of liver and gut.  But the sharpness of the single bevel.    This makes about 12 in the last few years with a sb and all have had larger holes then one would think with a small 2 blade.  Has far as blood trails I've guess I've been lucky.  Never had a problem    But my broad heads are crazy sharp.  And the deer don't go far

[Roger Norris]

I am currently experimenting with single bevel heads. I am a long time lover of the big Magnus 2 blade heads, and recently the 200 grain Ace heads. I have had a bunch of deer kills with both, and my notes show something disturbing....although most of my deer kills have been complete pass thru "no problem" situations, when bone is contacted (about 25% for me) penetration suffers.

So I have bought some Tuff Heads from Joe, and Todd Smith graciously gifted me an Alaskan Bowhunter Ashby head and a matching field point. I just started gathering these things this week, so I haven't killed anything with them yet.

I have killed a few deer with the old Grizzly heads, and I didn't care for them, because the batches I had seemed to have inconsistent steel hardness, and that made sharpening a chore.

These heads, both the Tuff Head and Alaskan Bowhunters head, seem to be of absolute superior quality to any head I have used.

I respect opinions like Charlies a great deal....my notes are telling me to dig deeper, and create a better arow FOR ME.

Arrows are flying well, I may be hunting with them tonight. We shall see. Great thread.

P.S....these heads aren't "magic" they aren't going to make every bad shot a good one. The broadhead is ONE PIECE of my personal search. I am also looking hard at my shaft choices and bow weight. I have already concluded light weight bows (less than 57#) are not for me when it comes to big game.

[Steve O]

Well said Roger.  I have only taken two bears with the single bevel heads.  The first one sold me.  I hit so much solid shoulder, I am 100% sure my normal Snuffer or Woodsman would NOT have gone thru.  That Abowyer Brown Bear was devastating as it went thru the shoulder and knocking a fifty cent piece sized exit hole in the opposite ribs.  Excellent blood trail of maybe 75 yards.  The 2nd bear was a +300 rutting boar and I did not notice the blood trail because he made a roar and two bounds and was down and OUT!  

The steel on the Abowyers, Tuffheads, and Eclipse are beyond good and they are surgical instruments from what I have seen and felt.  I am sure the new Grizzly's Bill Dunn is making are top notch, because he is not going to turn out anything less.

Nowadays I am more into quality than quantity, so I am not the best guy to talk about blood trails...my sample size is not going to show  a lot.

I still love my Snuffers and Woodsmen.  My experimentation with the single bevel broadheads has told me they work great.  As I said before, IF I am in a situation where I want to use a two blade, I will use a single bevel as there are no disadvantages to them.  Why not    

[FarmerMarley]

This is very interesting stuff guys. I'm definitely going to be trying a few of the Abowyer heads this year...Still not sure about my turkey arrows though...Season opens on turkeys in a week, I will probably stick with my VPA 3 blades but am really curious about single bevel BHs on turkeys.