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Author Topic: Habitat Management Question  (Read 381 times)

Offline Marvin M.

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Habitat Management Question
« on: November 19, 2012, 07:34:00 PM »
I've been hunting a property for almost ten years now.  It's about 250 acres (mostly pasture) and we take about ten deer (some with guns) per year from it so there is good food sources on it and lots of cover on a surrounding farm. I'm the only trad hunter on the farm.

There are four mature pear trees on the farm that have not had any fruit on them in the time I have hunted it. What can I do to get them to bear fruit.

I know that they need to be trimmed but have no clue how to do it. They look healthy, with no dead or broken limbs and I can't see any evidence of insect damage.

I've done some Internet searches but can't find any information on how to do this.

Can someone either point me to an Internet site or tell me how to do this so I can hunt over pears next fall?

Thanks

Offline DamselflyFarm

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2012, 08:04:00 PM »
I'd suggest maybe contacting the Kentucky cooperative extension in your area. They will be familiar with the trees that grow in your zone, and they'll certainly be knowledgable as to how to get them fruiting again. Good luck.
Take care,
Jeff

Offline KeithG

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2012, 08:18:00 PM »
I planted some about 5 to 8 years ago. no pears till last year. I put mule poop and each tree had about 5 to 10 pears. I am going to add some more this spring.

Online rastaman

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2012, 08:27:00 PM »
If you google "why won't my mature pear trees bear fruit" you will find several good web sights that will give you some possible solutions.  Also, good advice above about contacting your county extension service office.
Stark brothers is one of my favorites for solving problems such as yours.  Good luck to you for next year.
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Offline Birdbow

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2012, 08:34:00 PM »
I have pear trees that the limbs sag to the ground with fruit most years. I prune the tops back late spring/early autumn when the cuts aren't in danger of frost damage. The trees are in an open area and get plenty of light. If other trees are competing, they can be cut out around the fruit trees. As far as feritlizer, I spread chicken droppings from the coop as well as ash from my wood stove. Seems to be working very well.  In fact, I now have a bear problem around them! Good luck
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Offline Pheonixarcher

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 01:45:00 AM »
Very good advice above!  I would certainly suggest researching the proper way to prune them, and remove any surrounding competition. I don't have much experience with pear trees yet (have planted a few in the past couple years), but my property has an old apple "orchard" that I have been improving. Apples require as much sunlight as you can give them, and enough space between the branches to enable air flow. And when you fertilize any tree, be sure to put it around the drip line of the canopy. My apple trees were not bearing much fruit, if any at all, before I 'released' them from the competition and opened them up. Now they are producing a bounty of apples that the deer have a hard time keeping up with. Good luck and have fun!
Plant a fruit or nut tree today, and have good hunting tomorrow.
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Offline ALwoodsman

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 06:14:00 AM »
I planted a couple a few years ago and need to look into it myself.  I have gotten a lot of good habitat management advice from the QDMA forums you might check that out.

Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 09:55:00 AM »
OK, thanks guys.  The trees are in open areas so I know that isn't the problem.  There are lots of limbs growing from the trunk making it difficult for me to even decide where to trim.

I'll try the county extension agent and see if they can help.

Offline gregg dudley

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 03:22:00 PM »
I was looking at your statement that you are hunting 250 acres and that your group was taking 10 deer per year off of that property and that made me a little curious about the deer density in Kentucky.  I looked it up on this site  http://www.kdfwr.state.ky.us/fall03mg1.asp  and found that Owens County is the most heavily populated with 47 deet per square mile.  That is a lot!

Then I did some math.  If you have 47 deer per square mile (640 cres) that comes out to 1 deer for 13.6 acres.  Taking gross assumptions here like all property being equal etc., that would mean that a 250 acre parcel in the most densely populated area could hold 18.3 deer. Killing 10 deer a year on 250 acres means that 54% of the deer population is being harvested.  Is that good or bad?  I don't know, but I found Table I on this page interesting.   http://www.wvu.edu/~agexten/wildlife/deer.pdf   The problem is that the numbers do not consider acreage, but you can quickly see ratios that will indicate general impact.

Now I know it is nowhere near as simple as all that and trust me I am not being critical of your club or hunting crew at all because I have been in clubs with similar acreage and kill numbers but far less density.  The problem is that after a few years everbody started wondering why they weren't seeing as many deer...

Sorry I got off track, but you asked a management question and my mind started looking at the numbers you were using. I am not a management guru by any means and generally shun these topics.  I guess it was the numbers thing that got me as it seemed like a lot for the acreage.  

I do hope you get the pear trees figured out.  I can tell you from experience that they are an absolute deer magnet.  
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Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 03:56:00 PM »
Gregg,

I've run numbers too on this.  It's a sweet property.  A lot of the area around it is non-hunting and there are so many oaks here that it's hard to decide which one to hunt.  You can literally walk on acors every step through the woods.  Last year they took ten off the property.  I didn't hunt it at all.

I would say that the group (mostly family with a few friends thrown in) has taken an average of seven a year for the last ten years.  Before that, I'm not sure but they've been hunting it for thirty years or more.

I see deer almost every time I'm there.  As a visitor (non-family), I just want to do something to help.  I thought bringing those pears back into production would be a positive thing.  I can contribute some sweat equity and I have permission to do anything I want to the trees to get them back into production.

Marvin

Offline gregg dudley

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 04:36:00 PM »
Yeah man. I understand and i didn't mean to hijack your thread.  There are a lot of factors including neighboring property etc.  I just was inspired to look up some stuff and thought I would share it with you.  If you get those pear trees in shape you will definately contribute.
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Offline lpcjon2

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 07:39:00 PM »
Pruning will initiate new growth, and keep in mind that when it starts to get cols you do not want to put any granular fertilizer down.I would recommend keeping it natural with manure and compost rather than the chemical fertilizers.
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Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 09:54:00 PM »
Gregg,

No problem. I've wondered about the harvest too but it seems to handle it. This is Harrison County and the place is crawling with deer.

Offline Junglecat

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 11:47:00 PM »
According to UK Extensions website,         http://ces.ca.uky.edu/ces    Gary Carter is your agent in Harrison County.If its the Gary I think it is he has been in Extension for many years.I was an agent in southern Ky back in the mid 80s but left for a better job.Regardless of who is there now that person can provide you with free bulletins or a video link from the website,etc.If they dont have any bulletins they can get them from the main campus.Also ask if there will be any demonstration workshops in your area this spring.Many times they have these out in the state.Its kind of on the job training where you can watch the specialist prune and often times actually participate in working on some trees and learn how to do it.They will also explain why they are making cuts where they do,etc.
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Offline Michigan Mark

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2012, 10:28:00 PM »
You stated "There are four mature pear trees on the farm that have not had any fruit on them in the time I have hunted it. What can I do to get them to bear fruit." The type of Pear trees are relevant to when the fruit or harvesting will be done. Some are in summer others in fall and some in winter. Also effecting the fruit if it grows are the blooms, as Pears are related to apples. When the blooms/flowers came this year on many fruit trees (Apples, pears, cherry etc.) a cold snap freezing the flower/blooms which create the fruit and thus no fruit to speak of came in such areas this year.

As you attested the trees had no fruit when you hunted them. Can you confirm that they produced no fruit at all or just at the times you were hunting. Speaking with the land owner when these pear trees bear their fruit and if this is unknown, then checking throughout the year to confirm your belief is the only way to know. Perhaps the blooms/flowers were damaged by mother nature a few years and thus caused no fruit. Pruning can help to establish more fruit and easier gathering of fruit but unless deprived of sunlight some fruit on such a wild tree should still be present being they are mature. This is just my thoughts with the information you provided. Good luck and report any further information you have to help with habitat for feed for hunting the Traditional way.
...Mark

Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 09:12:00 AM »
Mark,

No fruit at all.  I hunt turkeys there too and I have never even seen a bloom on the trees.  No idea what variety they are and the "manager" of the hunting operation has lived there thirty years and he doesn't remember them having fruit.

Offline Michigan Mark

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 10:07:00 AM »
Frequently, there is no single reason for a lack of a crop
Excerpts taken from WHY IS THERE NO FRUIT ON MY TREE? (PDF) by R. M. Crassweller

"Undoubtedly in the backyard situation the number one reason for failure of trees to bear fruit is improper tree vigor. Over vigorous trees expend all their energy in growing wood and do not produce flower buds. Typically, this occurs for two reasons: over-fertilization and over-pruning. Heavy applications of nitrogen will stimulate excessive growth at the expense of flower production."

"Apples and pears need to be pruned differently than peaches and other stone fruits. Before pruning your trees make sure you know where the tree produces flowers and how to prune to encourage flower production. In general, thinning out cuts (those that remove an entire branch back to its point of origin) are less stimulating and encourage more flower production. Heading cuts (the removal of a portion of the branch) will stimulate more vegetative growth and delay flowering. In extreme cases continual heading cuts will totally prevent flowering in apples and pears."

"The second leading cause for lack of fruit production is frost damage. The flowers of fruit trees are very sensitive to late spring frosts. Temperatures much below 29 degrees F will prevent fruit formation."

"The third most common reason for failure of the trees to bear fruit is lack of, or poor, pollination. All flowers must be pollinated in order to form fruit consistently. The better the pollination in apples and pears the larger the fruit. In order for pollination to be successful the flowers must receive healthy pollen at the proper time. The bloom periods of the varieties must overlap. Bees are the main method for the transfer of pollen between flowers. Anything that interferes with bee activity, such as insecticides, cold weather, rain or wind will reduce pollination.

Apples and pears must be cross pollinated. Therefore, you must plant two different varieties if you want to produce fruit. There are also varieties that produce sterile pollen and need to be planted with at least two other varieties."

"The fourth most common reason fruit trees do not bear fruit is the effect from last year’s crop. Fruit trees form their flowers the previous growing season.
Heavy crops the previous year can reduce flower formation for the next year by reducing growth or preventing flower formation. In apples and pears this can be a serious and difficult problem to correct. The solution - remove some of the fruit within 2 to 4 weeks after bloom. If thinned later than this then you will not benefit from increased flowering the next year. With apples and pears, thin the fruit down to one per cluster and allow only fruit bearing clusters every 6 to 10 inches."

"Other reasons for no fruit include tree age, and the use of the insecticide carbaryl during bloom. Do not expect to produce very much fruit on apples and pears until the third to fifth year after planting depending on the rootstock."

"The insecticide carbaryl if applied to apple and pear trees during bloom or the first month after bloom will cause the fruit to drop. If a small portion of the fruit drops, then you will have less fruit to thin. However, this practice can remove all the fruit from the tree if carbaryl is applied too frequently or at too high a rate. This problem occurs most frequently when using general purpose spray mixtures. The solution - read the label of all pesticides carefully and avoid the use of carbaryl during this period unless you want to thin the fruit."

Pear trees need to be at least 4 to 6 years old to bear fruit but as you noticed No blooms it appears that the trees also have not been getting  pollinated. Good luck.
...Mark

Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2012, 10:04:00 PM »
Mark,

I don't think it's frost. Not since they haven't borne fruit in the ten plus years I've hunted there. Two of them  are on the path I walk in on.

I'm thinking I need to do some "thinning out cuts" to encourage flower production.  Also, one article I read mentioned using a shovel to cut the roots around the root line.

I think they could definitely benefit from thinning. They're very thick right now and are basically straight up. I might try thinning this year and root cutting next year if I get nothing.

Offline Hummer3T

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2012, 10:57:00 PM »
Do they have fruit at all, or is it all gone when you hunt?  If trees are not producing at all, You will have to ensure you have a pollinator (crab apples trees) work good, also a bag of sheep or cow manure around the drip line would not hurt.
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Offline Marvin M.

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Re: Habitat Management Question
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2012, 09:31:00 AM »
I turkey hunt here too.  I've never seen any blooms on the trees.  

I'm pretty sure now that they need a really good trimming to get them back on line.

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