Heavy bow or better string?

[Prairie Drifter]

Why should I go up in weight if I can get the same performance by using a different string? As I said ,the biggest gain will be going from b-50 to a skinny HP string. One bow in particular, I had to increase my arrow spine by 15lbs(40-45 to 55-60), but most were 10lbs of spine.

[BRIARS]

I also noticed about a 10lb spine difference. Love my Barbee string.

[bigbadjon]

Going to a high performance string will not give you the same gains as going up 5 pounds of draw. Period. It is not my opinion, it is a fact. Put the hype aside and put it on a chronograph yourself.

[Tajue17]

sounds good,,, who out there has a chrono and still has one of their old strings around? test the difference in speed and then do a set of shots drawing the bow back an extra inch to see what the difference is,,,,,,, its a rough estimate but we'll get some cool numbers I think.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Jon, if you're getting different results than everyone else, maybe you've got something else going on.

Every bow I have put a skinny string on (two longbows and a production recurve) has picked up speed and dropped noise.  

Matter of fact, there's no way speed could NOT go up.  You're dropping weight off of the string.  The limbs have no choice but to recover faster with less weight holding them back.

[bigbadjon]

Onestringer has a comparison of high performance strings on his website that is well done. The type of performance gains people attribute to this is the same as saying a 50# with a skinny string and a 600 gr arrow is going to launch that same arrow with the same performance as a 60# bow with a conventional string. Thats the same thing as saying you gain the performance of 10 lbs of draw by changing the string. Just the speed isn't enough either, how about the cast of the arrow? Just changing a string will not pay the same returns as draw weight.

[bigbadjon]

Look I don't want to get into an argument so I'll clarify my official position with this last statement.

Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.

People sold on Dyneema's magical properties will never accept that statement nor will they test it to see for themselves. So with my position clear I will bow out of this conversation.

[Flying Dutchman]

I am sorry. We have chronoed several bows with the "old" string and with the "new" SBD skinny string, 6 or 8 strands. We used a good a good shooting chrony with a reliable read-out.
The speed we measured was every time clearly going up with the SBD strings. After we were warmed upo enough, we started some serious measuring. To be sure we shot each bow 20 times trough the chrony, 10 times with the old string and 10 times with the SBD string. As sad, this was depending on how many strands the old string had. We worked with averages, because we afre nor shooting machines. We held the averages very conservative. As rule of thumb we concluded that a SBD string increases your speed with at least 2 fps per 2 strands less. Sometimes we doubted if it shoudn't be 3 fps, but we kept it on a conservative 2 fps.
That was our (some serious fellow archers) conclusion after an afternoon testing. It was tested with 4 bows: two recurves and two hybrid longbows. All between the 45 and 52 lbs drawweight. All diffent strand counts on the old strings, all SBD 6 or 8 skinny strings as new strings. Each bow was shot every time with exactly the same arrow for measuring.

These were our true and honest measurements.

We also found out, that in the most extreme case, going from 16 strands to 6, the difference in spine would be 5 lbs or a lower front weight with 25 grains.

[David Mitchell]

bigbadjohn, just want to clarify here--are you suggesting that 2 like arrows of the same weight, going the same speed, will not have the same "cast" because of the string they just left?  The arrow doesn't know what kind of bow, string, or anything else launched it.  It is just traveling a given speed and will follow the laws of physics.  I really don't care that much as I'm not into speed--my set-ups work just fine as they are, but I'm just pointing out the flaw in the thinking of some folks regarding these issues. Unless somebody has proof to the contraray, I will remain of the belief that two identical arrows of, say, 500 grains, traveling at let's say 185 fps will go the same distance regardless of the bow weight or string material that launched them.  Am I wrong here?  Not a physicist but just seems common sense to me.

[bigbadjon]

I said:

Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.

That is fact. That is my final answer. No clarification necassary.

[Bjorn]

I have done a bit of testing on this stuff myself-my conclusion is that all this really comes down to is the weight of the old string compared to the new one. If you replace a 16 strand dacron with a 16 strand FF and the strings have an equal weight your gain will be zero. If you knock off 70 grains; which is quite realistic by the way, you can have a new arrow that is 70 grains heavier, traveling at your former speed, or same weight arrow traveling at an increased speed. Yes you will have some tuning to do, which is expected. The bonus for me has always been a more quiet bow even if I left the arrow weight the same as before. Others may have different experiences.  

[gringol]

Originally posted by bigbadjon:
I said:

Going up in draw weight will always add more performance (that is speed, power, and cast) than just upgrading the string on your bow.

That is fact. That is my final answer. No clarification necassary.

sure, if both bows are in all other respects the same.  But, if you want to improve the performance of the bow you have, a lighter string is a great way to do it.

[LBR]

I just weighed a 63", 10 strand (16 in the loops), Dynaflight '97 flemish string with 8" served with .024 Halo serving.  It weighs 128 grains on my digital scale.

Each of those 10 strands weighs 7-8 grains.  Drop 4 strands, you dropped maybe 30 grains (on a 63" string--less on a shorter string).

This drop is over the entire length of the string--from the ends where the weight has very little effect, to the center that has the most effect.

Add whatever it takes to get a proper nock fit (padding under the serving, double-served, etc.) back to the string.

Draw your own conclusions.

[Prairie Drifter]

I increased my speed by a minimum of 10fps. The accepted norm is 2fps for every pound increase in draw weight. That to me is a 5 pound increase in performance.

[TxAg]

Well, my naked eye can't tell if it is any faster, but the target is definitely rocking more so I'm assuming I picked up a bit of speed. It still shoots quiet as well. I'm satisfied.

[LBR]

More than likely you did pick up a little bit of performance--60 grains off the string is enough to notice on most bows, especially lighter draw weights.  It takes a calibrated crony and a Hooter Shooter to get the details.

[David Mitchell]

Hooter Shooter???????    Sorry, couldn't help it.

[LBR]

Yeah...danged if I know how they came up with the name.  Got to admit, it gets attention.

[Tajue17]

Bigbadjon,,, I understand where you are coming from. I know I notice speed with my new strings but in reality its all theory without  actual proof.   now if I'm assuming my 50# bow now shoots like a 6olb bow because of the lighter string I just can't proove it but I understand that drawing a bow 10pounds more could be faster with a normal FF string or B-50 string I'm not even sure what string.  

Is there anyone here that has a bow with two sets of limbs with a 10# difference,, hopefully the lighter one has a low strand string,,, not to get anyone fired up bI'm just curious now what the outcome would be.

and no offence to anyone but my original post was to avoid overbowing yourself and gain speed by going lighter on the string,,, by all means if you can handle 60# then do that if you have the money and still get the 8 strand string and you will have the best of both worlds..

[Jake Diebolt]

If the arrows are going faster, it means they are having more energy transferred to them. They are 'carrying' more force. If you can measure this energy in a meaningful and consistent way (i.e. speed changes between strings on the same bow with the same arrow with the same weight) then you can even quantify that energy - just as you would draw weight.

People in this thread have tested these strings and found they increase speed (and therefore energy) in arrows of the same weight from the same bows. That is proof - not simply theory. Whether you accept that proof depends on how much scientific rigor you expect, but it's certainly not just theory.