New Lesson on COLD feet. Thoughts?

[hunt it]

Feet sweat that is fact you cannot change. Liners will wick wet away but not solve issue. In warm climates it is not anyway near the issue as in sub zero temps. Rubber boots do not allow moisture to escape period.

Chemical warmers etc. all work great but cause feet to sweat more as temp increases. As long as artificial heat outlasts your hunt little issue again. If it runs out you'll find fast your feet will get much colder and faster.

Get yourself a pair of the cabelas Iditarod pack boots or one of the others that are similar rated for -150 or so. They must have removable liner. Then walk to stand in liter boot and change to pack boot before sitting. This is what I do when really cold as I don't like walking far in those big boots. The alternative is buy extra liners which are very lite and switch liners out when get to stand.

[NoCams]

My brother battled cold feet until several years ago when the Muck boots became popular. He has the Woody Max versions and made sure they were big enough with 1 pair of heavy wool socks to have wiggle room..... PRESTO, no more cold feet.

In the past he tried all the tricks mentioned above like anti perspirant, changing to dry socks, etc, etc and nothing worked for him. We hunted several mornings last few years when the temps were 5-10 degrees and we were fine for 3-4hrs. My son added a chemical handwarmer on top of his toes but he is a little more cold natured than I am. JMHO

[mtnwalker]

sock liner with a smartwool sock. still have to change out wool socks if feet get cold.  Have never tried rubber hunting boots, always wore vasque hiking boots, but this season been hunting with a pair of danners.

[Mint]

I noticed the same thing this year with my lacrosse boots. I use the toe heater chemical warmers if needed so my feet don't get cold. what is worrying me is that the scent must be coming out of the top of the rubber boots as i walk in so is this defeating the rubber boots purpose. I'm thinking about getting the ll bean boot hoping that i won't sweat so much and stay scent free. If anybody can recommend a good scent free boot that is warm please let me know.

[Tajue17]

Mint, even though I still have Lacross and still use them behind the house because of that problem you mentioned above is why I got the Muck Wetlands,, the tops of those boots are tight against your leg like an elastic so no scent poofs out as you walk (or maybe not nearly as much as the lacross)  also I keep my sheathed handknife in one boot which holds it right there fine and the other boot I keep my small flashlight,, point is that the muck boots tight top serves 2 purposes,,, well actually 3 purposes now that I think of it where you can also roll down the tops of the muck wetlands like a firemans boot to reveal the inside is all Blaze orange and in a pinch you can also show some Blaze for safety when you think someone with an itchy trigger finger is nearby.

[Cory Mattson]

Ksdan - for long entry - cold mornings - say a mile to mile and a half walk when it is in the 20s at pink light I wear a light hiker w cotton sox and change a few hundred yards from stand on the way in to fresh dry wool sox dry liners w pacs or even no liner and an 18 inch rubber la crosse. With dry boots and sox liners whatever I stand a decent chance of staying warm - and I do use heat tabs too which so far has been guaranteed warm. A larger heat pad on my kidney area and one over my heart helps me wear one less layer up top so I shoot better and this helps my feet too.

sorry if someone else already said this didnt read the whole thread
cory<><
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[Talondale]

I wear cotton socks on the way in and change them out on the stand to liners and wool socks.  I wear the cotton because they DON'T wick the moisture into the boot.  That way when I take my socks off most of the moisture is not left in the boot.  I also will dry my feet and leave them out of the boot for a while to cool down before putting them back in the boot.  Also, don't tighten your boots on the stand.  Leave them fairly loose so that there's more trapped air in them to act as insulation.  If it gets too cold the boot blankets help a lot.

[rraming]

According to the "outdoor" experts sock liners are no good now and not to be used, one pair of Merino wool socks and that is it. Apparently the liners to not wick away moisture as we all thought and were making our feet cold. We are all aware about the benefits of wool and SmartWool is amoung the best (that is the new word on the street).
Never tried spraying my feet but if they sweat excessively, why not.

[NBK]

Keep your core warm and the rest of your body will take care of itself.  I wear Muck boots with one pair of Smartwool socks from early to late season.  No issues unless it's really cold, but then I'm in my Heater Body Suit and  no longer an issue.  If you don't want to go the HBS route, the insulated boot covers over your Muck boots and you're good to go.  My feet are damp all day in the boots but as long as I can keep my body warm (i.e. you're not shivering) I'm O.K.

[NoCams]

rraming,
That is good info and we stopped wearing the liners years ago when we found a great local outlet for 71% merino wool socks for $2 a pair !!! The liners made my feet feel, "clammy and drafty ". Now we just wear these $2 wool socks that are not really ultra thick and we are toasty in either Muck Woody Max or my Lacrosse Alpha Lites in 7mm thickness. When it gets below 20 we switch to Cabelas ultra thick mid calf wool socks that really come up almost to your knee and are 90% wool.

There is a simple fix for this-- get yourself one of the "crystal" deodorants, may have to go to a health food store. Apply to your feet-- they won't sweat for a week, and it is odorless! Screaming Eagle used to sell this stuff as the "miracle" rock deodorant, and that was 30 years ago.

[high desert rambler]

indigenous peoples solved this problem LONG before modern technology came along to screw up everybody's feet and keep them on a treadmill of shopping for answers.  the solution is breathable mukluks.  people think the solution to warm, dry feet is to build more and more layers against the cold, heavier boots, rubber, etc. but all that does is to trap the water and if you walk in any boots long enough, eventually the perspiration builds up and you get cold feet.

i'm one of them there skinny, lanky fellers with a very high metabolism - if i don't have food in my belly, i get cold.  my feet and hands are almost ALWAYS cold if it isn't really warm out.  and my feet seem to be sweating ALL THE TIME.  i have tried countless numbers of boots trying to keep my feet warm.  and btw, i live remote, at the end of a long dirt road at 8500 feet in the mountains, i work from home, so i'm rambling in the wilderness EVERY DAY, all four seasons - point being, I HAD TO FIND SOMETHING THAT WORKS.  and i did...

"empire canvas works" (at the URL of the same name) is a little cottage industry company run by a couple up in wisconsin, i think,  that makes clothing from natural fibers designed for really cold weather...i bought some of their "true north boots" about ten years ago... these are sort of a modern version of mukluks, made from bison leather, cotton canvas and wool inserts - my feet are TOASTY in these things with just a pair of lightweight wool socks in SUB-ZERO weather.  the key is the loft of the wool and the fact that it wicks away your perspiration and allows it to evaporate through the cotton outer layer.  my feet are NEVER wet in these things and ALWAYS warm.  

(i have no vested interest in this company - i'm just a HUGE fan of their stuff cuz it's the kind of handmade "good honest folks" quality  i really appreciate - stuff built to last a lifetime.)

the DRAWBACK, however, is that if there's snow on the ground,  the weather has to be well under freezing - otherwise the snow is gonna' melt and soak through the cotton and leather which will obviously result in very cold, wet feet... and they ain't cheap - but that's how it goes when your clothes isn't made by third world slave labor and junk plasticky materials...

i know there are other companies making mukluk style stuff as well, but these are what i've found to work best for me... natural materials and breathability are the key... which pretty much go hand-in-hand because goretex-shmoretex, no one has come up with a "high-tech" fabric that beats the naturals on an all-around basis.  not in  my experience, anyway...

oh - the other "drawback" is that if you've messed your feet up with modern corporate-designed footwear and all the arch support and high-tech nonsense they build into shoes these days to make up for the problems caused by straying away from simplicity, you may need some time to adjust to having flat soles and no ankle support - and after that adjustment period, you'll realize you now have the most comfortable footwear you have ever owned and wish you could wear these all the time...

[Blackstick]

Along time ago in my youth, when I was poor, I learned about a vapor barrier liner. The theory is that once the humidly level reaches a certain point you no longer sweat. This turned into being no more than bread sacks under my socks. I remember it working for me.

Nowadays, I wear Mickey Mouse boots. I think they may work on the same principle. I do know that they will keep your feet warm even when wet.

[KSdan]

LOTS of great input.  Thanks too everyone. . .  also, interesting how this seems a common issue for many.

Mukluks and such have always been intriguing to me- but they just won't work in the midwest/upper-midwest where there is so much water, briars/thorny stuff, freezing at daybreak, 50 by noon, etc etc.  Perhaps the alternative is some type of boot blanket that is basically a mukluk for on stand. . .  probably the direction I am heading.  Designing my own!  

Dan

[Mojostick]

Your problem is solved...

This anti-pers made for feet was available only in RX a few years back...
 http://shop.dsehealth.com/categories/Certain-Dri-Feet/

The warmest boots for sitting...
 http://www.cabelas.com/mens-insulated-hunting-boots-cabelas-predator-extreme-pac-boots-150-brown-mossy-oak-break-infinity.shtml?WT.tsrc=CSE&WT.mc_id=GoogleProductAds&WT.z_mc_id1=03 223101&rid=40&mr:trackingCode=0230FFB0-5EA4-E011-9A77-001B21631C34&mr:referralID=NA&mr:adType=pla&mr:ad=21046044551&mr:keyword=&mr:match=&mr:filter=43600703111

[Bladepeek]

If I'm going to be sitting in really cold weather, I have a set of insulated overboots. Is that what people are talking about with "boot blankets"? These things are HUGE, but I wear leather boots with a medium thickness wool sock when walking to/from the stand. Once there, I slip these things on and it's like a sleeping bag on each foot. Once, while hunting in Germany, I saw another hunter several hundred yards away watching me continuously with his binocs. I was pretty sure he recognized me with the first look and wondered why he kept looking at me. We met up for a coffee on the forest trail after climbing down and he kept looking at my feet. He finally said "OK, now you look normal". I knew nobody had feet THAT big". I also have what the Germans call an Ansitzsack. It's a heavy loden bib/sleeping bag that is zippered down the side and across the bottom. The back comes up over the back of your shoulders and it traps all the heat from your feet to your chest. I've sat out all night in near zero weather pig hunting and fallen asleep it was so nice and warm.

There's also an old saying, "If your feet are cold, put on a hat". We loose most of our body heat from our head and I used to hate hats, but now have a wool knit hat with a Goretex liner that I can't wear when walking, but man does it keep the heat in when sitting.

[Pete McMiller]

Personally I wear Cabelas polypro undersocks with wool over that.  I have used antipersperant on my feet with good results.  A buddy swears by putting his bare foot inside a bread bag before he puts his socks on.  His feet still get wet but the insulation in the boot doesn't so it still keeps his feet warm.  Makes sense though I have never tried it.

[John Scifres]

Honestly, that sounds like excessive perspiration.  There are certain medical conditions that contribute to this.  Just a thought.

[ChuckC]

Yep, sometimes we need to go in cold and change at the tree.  Wear some light weight rubber totes over wool socks on the way in and change after a few minutes of cooling down, just like many of us do with upper bosy garments.

ChuckC

[KSdan]

John S- You could have a point- but I am skeptical on that count. . .  

. .  never have had a perspiration issue.  Athlete, healthy, don't sweat excessive and not one who picks up a lot of "stink." None of my regular shoes, or even athletic are unduly gross with sweat.  Wearing wool, rubber boots, pac boots for decades and never recognized they were unduly wet.  But, again 52 years old, tons of MILES in boots and over 100 hours on stand just this fall- and these thinsulate/nylon liners really woke me up the first time just how damp my feet can get. I was really surprised. I have heard for years how much moisture your feet perspire, but I had never considered how damp my feet really were.  

Thanks for the thoughts