3Rivers Archery



The Trad Gang Digital Market













Contribute to Trad Gang and Access the Classifieds!

Become a Trad Gang Sponsor!

Traditional Archery for Bowhunters






LEFT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS TRAD GANG CLASSIFIEDS ACCESS RIGHT HAND BOWS CLASSIFIEDS


Author Topic: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?  (Read 1177 times)

Offline FarmerMarley

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 347
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2012, 12:10:00 PM »
I'm a newbie but I would stick with those arrows. I shoot a similar poundage bow (40.5 lbs at my 30.5" draw) and I have found arrows over 500 grains to fly great. I'm now up to close to 600, with a  28% EFOC and I have not found the trajectory to detract from my accuracy.

I shot 550 gn arrows all 3D season and they did great. I found that my point on distance was not much different from friends shoot much lower GPP. I shot my first hog with the same setup and got a pass through.

These arrows are VERY stable in flight, and my shot is quiet! Most importantly I know these arrows will penetrate. Arrow mass will give you more gains in penetration than increased velocity.

Offline huntsman247

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 136
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2012, 02:47:00 PM »
Carbon, aluminum!?!

Offline buckeye_hunter

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2982
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2012, 03:25:00 PM »
Don't fix what ain't broke. That's just my opinion though.

God bless,
Charlie

Offline huntnmuleys

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 1594
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2012, 06:03:00 PM »
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
is it September yet??

Offline Roughrider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 172
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2012, 08:11:00 PM »
Nope - not if they fly well.  If anything, another 50 - 100 grains wouldn't hurt when you're shooting a light draw weight.  The heavier arrow will penetrate better.

A light bow already imparts less momentum on the arrow, don't take more away from it from less arrow weight.
Dan Brockman

Offline LITTLEBIGMAN

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2713
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2012, 08:14:00 PM »
How do they fly? That should answer your question .
Make a life, not a living

Offline mongoose

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 267
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2012, 09:45:00 PM »
Has anyone said "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" ?  :wavey:    :campfire:
stalk softly and carry a bent stick

Online SS Snuffer

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 968
  • At home in White Oaks and swamps
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2012, 11:33:00 PM »
This set-up works great for me!
Chuck
Kodiak Mag 52" 41 lb.
Kota Kill-Um 60" 42 lb.
Kanati 58" 38 lb.
Black Hunter Longbow 60" 40 lb.

No Guts - No Story

  • Guest
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2012, 02:00:00 AM »
I don't see what your draw length is. If it is short, maybe a faster arrow could help with accuracy at longer shots, some.  A 450 grain arrow would more than likely have killed the buck you shot just as well.

Online Steelhead

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 2555
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2012, 02:31:00 AM »
Sounds good to me.I think thats a great hunting arrow.
It would be no problem to have another set though thats around 9-10 grains per pound to go with them.
I shoot CX 150s and CX 250s with heavier points on the 250s and a heavier arrow.I shoot the 150s with lighter points and and enjoy shooting them both.
I get better trajectory with the 150s.I get a harder hitting arrow and a quieter pleasant shooting bow with the 250s.I like both.
I dont think its too heavy.

Offline Keb

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 415
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2012, 10:36:00 AM »
My draw is 27 inches,  wonder how much lighter a 5/16 wood shaft is competed to a 11/32.

Offline Gordon martiniuk

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 695
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2012, 10:51:00 AM »
I say go with it. 12 gr" is on the heavy side and if it was me I would go to 10gr" just for better tradjectorty , which would make for a better set up fo hunting as your arrows will not drop as fast.
Gord

Offline AWPForester

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 490
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2012, 12:47:00 PM »
I understand a lot of the if it ain't broke don't fix it advice.  I don't understand why so many assume that at 42 pounds a 12 gpp arrow is handsdown better for penetration.  There are laws that govern the given, ever constant factors in this universe and it is called physics.

Physics basically says that there is a diminishing effect on all things if you have too much of one thing versus another.  Unless you are drawing 30 inches or better and/or have a very clean release, you are flirting with that if not beyond it with your setup.  I don't care how many numbless remarks heavier is beter you hear, it isn't always the case.

Penetration is a function of many things, including mass and SPEED!  Get to far from center in one direction or the other, if all other variables are equal, and you are losing best performance in penetration.  It really is that simple.  Simply loading up a heavy arrow to "get 'er done" is quite possibly costing you more than a lighter faster arrow in terms of penetration.  The trick is to stay with in reason to stay in the range where "best" is the results, not great penetration at 10 yards but lousy at 25 because your arrow was to heavy and never got an adequate speed to penetrate at the longer range.

So don't take the heavier the better approach unless you are content to shoot everything at karate range.  You have many things to consider.  Huntin range limits, quarry you intend to shoot which isn't an issue in North America unless you are after big bruiser hogs.  Your draw length, and string material.

A shorter draw is hampered much quicker from the telephone pole theories.  A longer draw will cast the overly heavy arrows better due to the increased power stroke.  Draw weight matters a lot in heavy arrows and how they cast and penetrate.  String material is a huge determining factor as it increases or decreases bow performance.  All are present in light arrow setups as well but really seperate and help determine if you truly are benefiting in the extra weight of a very heavy gpp arrow.

So, I would be in that 420 range, get great penetration and cast for your setup, kill anything a 12 gpp arrow will, and be happy with it.  You likely are as light in woodies as you are going to get, but get it closer to the 10 gpp with nothing but positive attributes instead of the 18-20 yar max you are currently expierencing due to 12 gpp of arrow weight.

I know a lot here will disagree, but 99% who will have never shot a deer at 30 yards with their telephone poles to tell you any different.  Mainly because they are fine with not attempting that shot.  It works for them and that is great.  Something to remember about this subject: Now we are moving away from the lighter cedar as the first choice in arrow woods, heavier weight are common.  But back in the day, a 425-450 grain cedar, 125 grainhead killed everything on this continent outta 45 pound bows very well.  All with a 12 or foc %.  Native americans killed buffalo with even less foc % and far less performing gear.  So this heavy is always better is misleading at best when you consider the whole picture.  You gotta decide if you are content to be accurate at ranges to 20 yards, or 30 yards or beyond.  Just my .02 worth and God Bless
Psalm 25:3 Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: Let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.

Offline Keb

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 415
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2012, 02:52:00 PM »
I had some 5/16 40/45 spine I had not shot, I fletcehed up two, with 100 grain points. Cut them to 28. I shot them thur paper, got bullet holes.

My heavy ones are 45/50 spine, is it common to have both spines tune from the same bow. I can tell the diff in speed, I dont have a grain scale but used the wifes kitchen one, the 5/16 is about 1 onze, which is supposed to be 437 grains, which is 60 grains lighter.

But it seems options for 100 grain glue on heads are slim.

Offline AWPForester

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 490
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2012, 03:30:00 PM »
Ace makes a fine 100 grain glue on.  Without knowing the riser cut since the 45/50 pound shafts tune, and the 50/55 do too, I would say your at center or a little past, which means the bow should be very acceptable to tuning many shafts.

If the broadhead selection is getting you, try the 125 head on the 5/16ths shaft.  I bet it is close to tuned.  If you are drawing 27 why do you need a 28 inch arrow?  Shortening it to 27.5 will do wanders to stiffen a woody.  If you trim the shafts a little you still can drop the brace to get it done with the shorter, 125 grain loaded arrow.  Problem solved.

Cut on 27.5 and try it first with the 125 head.  If you still need to stiffen it a coupe twists to start will get you what you need. This is of course if you want the 125 head.  If not, leave it alone and shoot the 100 grain ace heads.  If arrow weight was my intention, I would cut the shaft, use the 125 head, and lower the brace if nesecary.  That extra 1/4 inch or so of lower brace will pick you up a lot of speed as well.  

God Bless
Psalm 25:3 Yea, let none that wait on thee be ashamed: Let them be ashamed which transgress without cause.

Offline Keb

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 415
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2012, 07:00:00 PM »
I was able to do some shooting, the bow shots more accurate with the 5/16  40/45 spine w/100 grain, than the 11/32  45/50 spine w/125 grain.

I will be making the switch, it will shave about 60 grains off and put me at 440 ish, are the ace heads for a 5/16 shaft? Anyone know?

Offline Friend

  • TG HALL OF FAME
  • Trad Bowhunter
  • *****
  • Posts: 8152
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2012, 08:30:00 PM »
Confidence is paramount.

Ironically, there have been merely two times of which I have exceeded a 9.0/3D target average and I was shooting a 11.9 gpp arrow on both occassions. Due note that there were merely 1 to 2 targets 25 yards and over on the courses.

Again, confidence is paramount!
>>----> Friend <----<<

My Lands… Are Where My Dead Lie Buried.......Crazy Horse

Offline 3undr

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 101
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #37 on: December 03, 2012, 07:08:00 AM »
awpforester has it right there is a point  where too much weight becomes harmful to penetration due to lack of speed. at 42 pounds 420grn would be as much as i would shoot.

Offline Roughrider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 172
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #38 on: December 03, 2012, 07:43:00 PM »
My testing and real world results on animals shows more weight always helps - I don't know how heavy the arrow would have to be to see diminishing returns.  

here are some actual numbers:
47#@28" ACS CX/Z R/D longbow  drawn 29"
470 grain arrow - 187 fps - 12.555703 foot pounds momentum
500 gr - 177 fps - 12.642844 FP
740 gr - 147 fps - 15.5539987 FP

64# @28" RER Vortec II R/D longbow drawn 29"
500gr - 201 fps - 14.3571FP
740 gr - 177 fps - 18.711413 FP

My wife shoots an RER VOrtec also, she draws about 26 " which results in about 42# at her draw - her 575 grain arrow travels 145 fps which results in 11.910735 FP - which puts her Wensel Woodsmans into the ground on the other side of most deer she shoots.  

Maybe tomorrow I can shoot some extremely heavy "arrows" like steel rods and finberglass rods to see how they chronograph and their momentum - I expect to see some extreme energies -and very low speeds.
Dan Brockman

Offline Roughrider

  • Trad Bowhunter
  • **
  • Posts: 172
Re: 42lb recurve is 500 grains to heavy?
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2012, 07:46:00 PM »
I forgot to add - we did the same test with a compound - Matthews set @ 65#, 27" draw -
500 gr - 218 fps - 15.571413 FP
740 gr - 184 fps - 19.451412 FP
Dan Brockman

Users currently browsing this topic:

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
 

Contact Us | Trad Gang.com © | User Agreement

Copyright 2003 thru 2024 ~ Trad Gang.com ©