Switching to a 3D deer target was interesting to say the least!!/ thoughts/help

[nineworlds9]

So I've been back at the trad thing for a little over 3 months now after a 15 year hiatus and am loving every minute.  Early on I bought a really nice "Big Green Target" bag target and have been practicing almost every day at distances 10-30 yds, but mostly 10-20.  Back and forth, some weeks 10 only, some weeks mix it up, from different orientations, standing, kneeling, from behind bushes.  Anyway, I have been impressed with how accurate I had become in just 3 months, able to group arrows pretty darn well at those distances, and the bullseye on the target is starting to get shot out, haha.  Well over the last month I've been working on hitting single points with single arrows and that's been going pretty well too.  The Big Green is the only target I currently have.  I have been hunting 3 times this season, and each time have felt pretty confident in my abilities, have seen deer and gotten within 30 yds, but as of yet have not gotten any good setups for a clean shot.

Well much to my delight a friend invited me over to his house yesterday for some shooting and he has a nice 8 point buck 3D target.  He also has an awesome shooting lane cut on this property fully ranged out and properly measured 10 through 50 yard increments marked with bricks.  Well we spent all day shooting yesterday and MAN what the heck my shooting seemed to go all to hell???  Shooting at that fake deer felt totally different to me!  10 yds was not a problem (though I had a couple misses there too! ha!) 15yds was also pretty good felt natural.  20-30 was hilarious!  I had no problem getting 'near' the deer at all...I shot over its head, its back, under its belly, past its tail so many times we were laughing ourselves silly.  I also got plenty of shots in the 'kill zone' too though, but whereas my accuracy throughout the day for the killbox at 10-15 was between 75-100% depending, my accuracy at 20-30, especially 30, was miserable at maybe 50%, ha!  I guess I found it very challenging switching to someone else's range no.1 (why did the yardages seem further on his?? I measured mine too!!?) and no.2 the biggie, that deer sure looked different to shoot at being all tan and blendy, smaller target zone and not a big white and green bag!  Crazy!  I did not get discouraged, it just gave me pause, and there was much laughter as I mentioned, but I am certainly reevaluating my skills up to this point and all those tight groups on the bag don't mean so much to me now as they did a month ago.  I definitely determined my current effective hunting range where I feel I'm being ethical is now reduced to 15 yds.  Any advice?  I recently read Instinctive Shooting II and that had great info, now I want to reread it and figure out what the heck.  I've been planning on hitting the TBOF charity shoot in January, but now that I discovered that I'm really only good to 15 yds I'm worried.  I mean don't get me wrong, by the end of the day yesterday my average at 20-30 had improved quite a bit, and I think more sessions would definitely help, but how much can I expect to improve in a month?  Sheesh.  -Chuck

[khardrunner]

Pick a spot!

[shedhunta]

From my year of traditional experience my first educated guess is that you are not "picking a spot".  I learned recently to pick a spot on a 3d target and it makes such a difference.  Any animal you can find something to concentrate on.  From the moment I decide to shoot until arrow is released I try and burn a hole into that spot with my eyes.  Give it a try.  Good luck!

[Brianlocal3]

Nine,
There is more to this than pick a spot. Namely your sight picture is not use to having a deer shape in it so you don't know where to hold . If you are a gap or split vision shooter it should nt be hard to dial in. BUT if you are an instinctive shooter you HAVE to shoot different targets in order for you brain computer to learn where to hold.
You have learned your backyard green bag but have not learned other shapes angles and the like. Just keep shooting and you will get it dialed in.

[gregg dudley]

Pick a spot!  Imagine that red/black/orange dot on the critter and shoot it.  Watch some hunting shows on TV where they are bowhunting.  Practice picking a tuft of hair on the animal.  Where you are looking when you let go of the arrow is where it is going to go!

Come on out to the charity shoot and shoot with me.  We will have a big time.  Most of the shots at the charity shoot will be 20 yards and under.  It is set up for fun more than serious competition.

[gregg dudley]

Also,  shoot some cans, plastic bottles, milk jugs, etc. set up in front of your bag and shoot at other spots on the bag besides just the center.

Brian is right, if your brain is focused on shooting at the center of a big bag target you are training on a VERY specific sight picture.

[RunninWild77]

Nine, I had the same problem myself a few years ago, all I ever shot at was a target bag the same way as you at varying distances/positions, the problem is you ( and I ) subconsciously trained our brains to shoot at the bulls eye or a particular spot on the bag. The problem started after I picked up a bear target (same thing all black) and i had a hard time trying to pick a spot, I too was all over the place. What I think is going on is that when we repetitively shoot at the same type of target, no matter the distance or stance, we subconsciously train ourselves to shoot at the same familiar spot. When we go to a 3d shoot or head over to a friends house and shoot at something different our minds go into over drive because its not what we're used to seeing. Sorta like a target block. My suggestion would be to start going to at least w couple different 3d shoots, and buy a few different targets, or make some different targets. I still see those cardboard deer targets at sporting goods stores that will only run you about $5 a piece. You need to change up not only positions and distances but your sight picture to, I hope this helps.

[nineworlds9]

Thanks guys!  Those all sound like great ideas and explanations that make sense to me.  By the end of yesterday I had started to kick myself for shooting only at that silly bag target for so many months.  Def was showing improvement by end of day, so there is certainly light at the end of the tunnel, sounds like I def just have to reorient.  I will get started on some homemade targets and try to get over to said friend's house as often as possible to shoot at the 3d deer.  Far as my aiming method, yeah I'm somewhere between instinctive and I would say split vision, trying to go more for instinctive...def gotta focus on the 'picking a spot'...

One thing I realized after your replies, I def need to pick a 'smaller' spot...by end of yesterday I was getting a lot of double lung shots cause I foud it easy to concentrate on the 'lung area' (target had colored vitals) but like you all said the spot needs to be smaller than just 'lungs'.  Thanks again!!

Gregg thanks for the reassurance on the shoot, I def plan on coming long as FD schedule allows.  It looks like its just one day so I should def be able to make a day trip down from Tallahassee out of it.  

-Chuck

[RunninWild77]

What i mean by sight picture is a different target, what was happening is instead of seeing your familiar green and white bag you were seeing a big brown bullseye. Your accuracy is probably much better than you think. For instance try rolling an old base ball along the ground and try shooting it, I'll bet you'll be surprised how many times you'll actually hit it. Its because you entire undivided attention will be on hitting the center of that moving ball. Remember aim small miss small

[kat]

Yup! Pick a spot.  Been there, done that.

[Overspined]

Most deer hunts are a 15 yd game, some a bit farther.  I think 95% of my shots are within 12 yds.  You can clearly see why.

Low light in the woods, moving target, stress, hard to see any spot...there's a lot of variables!

Practice helps a lot on 3D targets, but the right kind of careful, focused practice.  You will improve, get some sort of methodical way you shoot using the ideas others have mentioned.

Have fun!

[Tickbait]

A fun thing to add to your practice would be to get out stump shooting.  It was an eye opener for me shooting at unknown distances and different shapes in the woods, not to mention shooting through gaps in the trees, over and under branches, etc.

[black velvet]

Judo points and stump shooting at unknown distances works for me. Seems if I know yardages I start to think to much and my shooting goes to hell. I just want to look at a spot I want to hit and let what ever little brains I have left do the calculations for me.

[nineworlds9]

Having SO much fun guys!  My wife is calling it an obsession, haha!  My old hobby/obsession was motorcycles and I had the bug hard for bikes, constant street riding, some track days, thousands of miles, several different bikes over the years.  Well, I started to get a little bored with that this past year and after being rear ended at a stop sign one morning on the way to work (no damage to bike/ no injuries) decided to put the bike up for sale and fund a new hobby...dug the ol Tigercat out of the garage after not shooting for 15 years and said "I'm going to bowhunt, by god"  haha.  

Runnin-  what you said makes total sense to me, especially when considered with the info I learned in Instinctive Shooting II.  I'm gonna try that baseball thing it sounds cool as hell!  

-Chuck

[nineworlds9]

On the stump shooting, I do have some judos, think next hunting day coming up soon I need to bring em and not worry so much about getting a deer and just do some shooting like you guys are saying, and who knows?  maybe I'll walk up on a deer anyway, ha!

-Chuck

[joe ashton]

another problem is when you shoot in your own 'range/yard'  you quickly learn the distances.  Even though you change your shots you still subconsciously know your distances. So when you leave your 'range' you don't know the distances and that messes with your mind and confidence... the solution is get out as often as possible.
Joe

[njloco]

I understand the sight picture, but you should be able to pick up any bow with pretty much any sight picture and shoot it pretty good right off if your doing it right. Did you try blank bale shooting to help get your form down pat so you don't have to think about it ?  It should be like throwing a ball, your brain should figure out on it's own where to point the arrow once it learns the trajectory of your set up, that is why it is important to practice at different distances without know how far the target is as it shouldn't matter.

Get an old soccer ball and take the air out and then fill it with the expanding foam, kick it around your yard and or hang it and shoot at it while it's still moving. Get a yoga block, they are made with the same or similar stuff as the Reinhardt targets are and come in a couple of sizes, but they are small and make you pick a spot.

Do a search on moebow's posts, both here and on youtube, and read his instructional information, they are very good.

Good luck.

[jimboby]

I agree with all the above posts and want to add another view.  Shooting with another watching can change things up a lot, especially if you are not used to it.  I noticed this in others at times before I became aware of it in myself.  It is just ridiculous how a new stress can ruin your shooting.  I find it the best practice of all to shoot in new situations, especially in front of of others.  A buddy of mine practices for elk by running a 100 yard dash before shooting.  It is to simulate the adreniline of a shot at a live critter.  Hope this helps.

[nineworlds9]

Joe, NJ, jim-  all good points that I will def try.  

jim- i do ususally shoot solo, maybe sometimes with my wife watching, but shooting with my friend yesterday, i guess there might have been a little competitive spirit going on, probably add that to the unknown target/surroundings..yup my shots weren't up to par for a large part of the day, haha

Thanks so much guys for all the great info/advice!

[Cedar&Flint]

It's much easier for me to focus when shooting alone than with the distraction of another person being present. Good thing for me that my hunting is a solo sport!