Arrows and Accuracy

[Diamond Paul]

I'd just like to share some observations about some changes I've made in what arrows I shoot and how I think it's made me more consistent at longer ranges.  Now, I know the current thinking in trad archery is to shoot something approximating a log with a sharp point on it to maximize penetration and such.  That's all good, I don't want to debate about how many grains per pound is needed to kill something; that's up to you.  What I do want to tell you is that I decided to put the logs by the fireplace and get some arrows that were a bit lighter, something around 8-9 grains per pound, and I've found that the flatter trajectory has really made a difference in my consistency at longer ranges.  I like to shoot out to 40 yards at home, and I found that the really heavy arrows that most say are "needed" to ensure penetration were giving me fits when I moved back past about 25 yards.  They shot fine, but any error I made in elevation was so magnified at the target that it became very frustrating.  With the lighter arrows, I don't have to change my arm elevation too much to shoot at longer ranges, and my groups have become much better.  My own feeling is that arrows of this weight should be perfectly adequate for deer-sized game, so it's a win-win situation for me.  I do shoot a metal riser bow, so light arrows will not damage it; I'm not advocating compound weight stuff, but I think you might be pleased with the results you get from using something a bit lighter.

[McDave]

Rick Welch got me on to light arrows when I took his class, and I've never looked back. He also hunts with them, but he can generally put an arrow into a softball sized circle at any distance he hunts. I can't, so I hunt with arrows that are at least 9 gpp, which I think helps when I'm a little outside of that softball.   But for 3D, give me the lightest arrow my bow will safely shoot.

[Jock Whisky]

A lot of this "gotta shoot heavy arrows" stuff comes from Ed Ashby's reports. But if you read the reports the good Dr. isn't telling us to all run out and shoot heavy arrows. He is testing and discovering all manner of things that affect penetration. It's up to us to use his research to make intelligent decisions on what arrow to use depending on what we are doing.

If I was hunting moose I probably would want a high FOC heavy arrow and 2 blade head. Deer is a different story and for 3D there's nothing wrong with light and fast.

Just my 2 cents worth.

JW

[moebow]

DP,

This question really hasn't got anything to do with shooting "FORM" (nothing actually) it would be a better discussion on the Pow Wow.

I do agree with Jock.  Many have confused or are confusing high FOC with high arrow weight.  9-10 GPP has been a rule of thumb for as long as I can remember.  You can build an arrow with "X" grains of total weight that has the old standard 12-14% FOC or the same "X"  grains total weight that has 20 or more % FOC.

Arne

[Stumpkiller]

EFOC arrows have all the weight in the nose and they drop like rocks once the tail feathers start to drag.  No coincedence flight arrows have barrel tapers and tiny points.

I don't recall "FOC" or "EFOC" being mentioned among wood arrow shooters in pre-carbon days.  Stick metal on one end and feathers on the other and damn the acronyms; full speed ahead.  It will work.

In fact, we used to be very careful in having just a hair of clearance for the broadhead on a gloved bow hand so no more shaft than absolutely necessarily was being used to assure the highest possible speed.  Back then "speed" wasn't a dirty word.  ;-)

[gonefishing600]

Everybody here has advice based on their own experience, which may or may not coincide with your situation.

I have a great inventory of many different bows  by the greatest bowyers in the world. they consist of different materials, different designs, and all perform differently.

Then even if all things are equal, apples to apple, they are still compounded by different archers who have different draw lengths, different releases, and different arrow design, a different glove or tab, a different string, three under vs split finger, so many variables!

Is your bow tuned to you and your arrow, and is your arrow tuned to you and your bow? It's something that should stay with you on every shot!

Shooting out to 40 yards compared to 25 yards makes no relevance heavey or light arrows, if your not comparing apples to apples or the same bow design, with the same arrow design, and the same string. What really matters is are you hitting the target consistently?

You must keep an open mind to what your bow is saying to you.

This is just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Thanks for listening.

[gringol]

HH shot 700 grn arrows out of a 110# bow. That's a very heavy arrow, but that's also less than 7gpp.  Might explain how he could make some of the longer shots...

Above all else, accuracy kills.  If lighter is more accurate for you, you should absolutely go with it.  A 1,000 grn arrow striking a deer in the leg is much less lethal than a 400 grn arrow in the boiler room.  Most of us are hunting relatively thin-skinned, light-boned game anyway and lighter arrows work just fine on most game.

[njloco]

When I told my friends I was shooting 1535GT's out of my bows, they thought I was crazy ( too light ), until they tried it ! I use them at 27 1/4" to full length with a 50gr. brass insert and a 125-150gr tip ,don't know what they weigh, but they fly GREAT !

Good luck !

[NothingHappenedToday]

My current arrow setup is 8 grains per pound, which works great for me. I was shooting 10 gpp, but was running into the same problems as the OP, the arrow drop past 15 yards was really effecting my accuracy. Plus, getting any points greater than 125 grains meant going online and ordering them,  or having to deal with inserts and such (another thing to purchase) if I wanted to use Judos.

[Retnuh Wob]

When I took Rick Welches class he recommended a Victory VAP 400 spine arrow with about 200 grs. of insert & broad head for a 50# bow. That is about 400 grs. of arrow give or take for about 8gpp. He recommended Simmon landsharks for the broad head. He typically shoots a 50# recurve of his own design which he advertises as shooting a 400gr. arrow at 200 ft./sec. Based on this I assume that is the speed he typically shoots.

As McDave said, Rick is a very good shot. The last shot of the second day of the class, we shot at a 3d target of an Elk. The target was about 45yds. away and on the other side of a dirt berm and slightly quartering away. You could only see about the last 6 or 8 inches of the targets back. Rick shot and I could hear the arrow hitting the target. I shot and did not allow for enough elevation, bounced the arrow off of the berm and hit the target in the rear hind quarter. I went over to get the arrows and Rick had made a perfect heart shot on the Elk on a spot he could not even see from his position.

Rick has the shooting ability ability to take advantage of the flatter trajectory of a fast arrow. Also, the game he typically shoots is no larger than a deer or hog. He also favors shooting a hog in the middle of the body and fairly high to catch the rear of the lungs, presumably avoiding the shield in most cases. He can shoot a heavier bow but preffers draw weights of 50# and lighter. He has achieved his reputation shooting 3d where the accuracy of a flat trajectory is a big advantage, and penetration is not an issue. Fast light arrows accomodate Ricks abilities and the shooting he usually does.

Dr. Ed Ashby has advocated high FOC and arrows weighing 650grs. or more based on extensive experimentation and research. Dr. Eds research methodology and the science behind it is rock solid. But, he admits to having a lousy release but has the ability to shoot fairly heavy draw weights. He also typically hunts very big animals with large vital areas. I would appologise to Dr. Ed if I make an error here but I would assume he limits his shots on these animals to faily short ranges based on his own shooting ability. For him shooting heavy, high FOC arrows makes a lot of sense.

To me, there is not right or wrong answer to the FOC, arrow weight question. It should be based on: What is your shooting skill; What are you shooting at; What are your typical ranges; What bow weight can you handle.