Warranty for less then 8 GPP ?????

[deadpool]

I understand from a safety point of view that shooting under 7gpp can be a health hazard, but I'm sure we've all had that friend that picked up a bow for the very first time in their lives, that so happened to be yours that decided to dry fire it, causing serious damage, a warranty like that would be great!

[McDave]

I have asked this question to at least 3 well known bowyers whose names you would recognize who don't publish a minimum gpp, and they have all responded with a number under 8 gpp. The usual response has been around 7 gpp.  Some years ago, I was into shooting low weight arrows to improve my 3D scores, but I eventually came to realize that the bow was much more pleasant to shoot if the arrows were at least 8.5 gpp or higher, and that at my level, it would be hard to tell the effect on my scores anyway.

I'm not stating the names, because they may have reasons of their own for not publishing a minimum gpp, and if you're interested, you can ask before you buy a bow.

[Bjorn]

Frankly I'm not impressed with warranties on bows-or much else for that matter. Do some homework, buy a good product from a reputable vendor and a warranty is no big deal. If my bows have a warranty I have never looked at it, I know my bowyer stands behind his work.
If I see a long warranty on a car I assume people are having reliability problems and the manufacturer has no choice-no thanks!  

[Nativestranger]

Like what Curly and Deadpool said I don't see anything wrong with providing 30years warranty with no gpp restrictions. Even if you must hunt with a heavy arrow. When hunting season is over,  its nice to be able to shoot a lighter arrow for 3d without worrying about void warranties.

I do fully understand Rob's point regarding the dangers of going below 9gpp. When you shoot a lighter arrow less energy is transfered to the arrow and what remains goes to the bow.  How much depends on the efficiency of the design.  A bow with 80% dynamic efficiency @10 gpp will have 20% energy left that must be dissipated by the bow. However shooting even 5 gpp arrow cannot be compared to having a dry fire. Efficiency does not fall off a cliff once you go below 9gpp as suggested. It just creeps lower and lower. Most modern recurve bows should still have about 75% efficiency at 7gpp. that's only marginally more energy dissipated by the bow compared to 10gpp. Hardly a cause for concern.

[Pete W]

The benefit to the buyer is you don't have to deal with a bowyer claiming you shot an arrow to light and you don't have warranty should a failure happen. Also the fact the warranty is transferable if you sell it, or buy used is a plus.
 Personaly I like arrows weighing 12 to 14 gr/#. It is nice to see a company close up the weazle out clauses in writing. The warranty is certainly better than, one year for the first owner only, or 1 that depreciates each year by 50% or some of the other many clauses we read in warrantys that void the warranty.
 Well done Alaska Bowhunting and BearPaw.

[Nativestranger]

Originally posted by Pete W:
The benefit to the buyer is you don't have to deal with a bowyer claiming you shot an arrow to light and you don't have warranty should a failure happen. Also the fact the warranty is transferable if you sell it, or buy used is a plus.
 Personaly I like arrows weighing 12 to 14 gr/#. It is nice to see a company close up the weazle out clauses in writing. The warranty is certainly better than, one year for the first owner only, or 1 that depreciates each year by 50% or some of the other many clauses we read in warrantys that void the warranty.
 Well done Alaska Bowhunting and BearPaw.

Well said and I would love to see your review of the Bodnik Quick stick and Caribow Slynx.

[David Yukon]

Originally posted by Pete W:
The benefit to the buyer is you don't have to deal with a bowyer claiming you shot an arrow to light and you don't have warranty should a failure happen. Also the fact the warranty is transferable if you sell it, or buy used is a plus.
 Personaly I like arrows weighing 12 to 14 gr/#. It is nice to see a company close up the weazle out clauses in writing. The warranty is certainly better than, one year for the first owner only, or 1 that depreciates each year by 50% or some of the other many clauses we read in warrantys that void the warranty.
 Well done Alaska Bowhunting and BearPaw.

+1

[sawtoothscream]

after seeing results a guy on archerytalk is getting with light arrows (350gr) and 1.5"  Rage mechanicals from a 47# bow I think lighter would work fine with COC heads.  He is using a ILF bow with extreme BF limbs though and has a 29" draw so that helps alot im sure.  Think my 3d arrows for my titan are like 7GPP and shoot great.   Do see teh concern for safty though on the really light arrows

[Flying Dutchman]

This thread is going to be more interesting then I thought...
For your information: I am an 3D archer, because hunting is forbidden in our small country.
As for arrow weight: I prefer a weight between the 9 and 10 GPP; even thought it is targets only. I wouldn't think about shooting under 8GPP! For me it is very easy to buy Bearpaw bows and I even started with one. All I shoot by now are American bows.

[Mike Mecredy]

The only thing to worry about with arrows too light is if you try and stretch the limits it can have a similar result as a dry fire.  All it takes is a few grains too light and one shot to cause a delam.  Why take the chance?  

Sure you got it last year,  it's under warrentee, it's simple, oops I guess that arrow was too light.  Then you got the bowyer that needs to honor his warrentee, he wasn't there when the bow broke, he'll just take your word for it, and replace it. Wondering the whole time "what did I do wrong on this one" when it's a simple matter of the arrow was too light.

All for what? 10 more feet per second?  

Just keep it at least 8 gpp and don't take the chance. (10 gpp is better)

[30coupe]

Since I am a bow hunter first, I just don't understand why anyone would want to shoot a different setup at 3D targets than his/her hunting setup. I want to be confident that when I draw on an animal I know what the trajectory of my arrow will be. If I make a bad hit or even a miss on a rubber target...big deal. A bad hit on a critter is not so good. I want my target arrows to weigh and fly exactly like my hunting arrows. I also want them as close to 10 grains per pound of draw as I can get for the best combination of trajectory and penetration.

That said, I see no reason to pull this thread. Seems bowhunting related to me. We don't have to agree on everything do we?

[Sixby]

/My question is this, What good is any warranty if the bowyer, Bow company is no longer in business. Who is going to guarantee that Bearpaw or any other company or person is going to be in business next year , much less thirty years from now. The best warranty anyone can honestly give you is that if I am alive and able I will replace , fix your bow. Period. Anything else is pure speculation.
'
Its absolutely worthless,.

God bless you all, Steve

[JamesV]

My previous post on this thread contained a typo. 328 grain arrow from 59# recurve should have read 49# recurve. Fat fingers will do that some time. I build all the bows I shoot myself so there is unlimited warranty even with light arrows. Seriously, I think arrow weight ratio is a personal preference and each person has the right to shot what ever they feel best suits their needs.

On the other hand..........I can see the concern of the professional bowyer where warranty would be an issue. I will let them work that out with their customers.

[LittleBen]

James, I build all my own bows so there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO WARRANTY regardless of arrow weight. Just curse words and temper tantrums.

To chime in on the arrow weight, I don't stress out too much on the exact arrow weight. I draw only 25" so that limits my stored energy/momentum etc. As a result I favor an arrow of 450-500grains. I dont think thats a heavy arrow by any measure, but it's no lightweight screamer either. I'm usually shooting 40-60lbs at my draw weight, so anywhere from 7.5gpp to 12gpp. If a 45# bow is ok to hunt at 10gpp, a 60# bow is fine to hunt at 7.5gpp. Botha re 450grain arrows. FWIW fine doesnt necessarily mean ideal.

I'm going to push the limits here and say that even with "less than traditional" bows, I would not be hunting with light weight arrows.

[LittleBen]

I think the nearly silent "Swoooosh" of the string on a clean release with a properly weighted and spined arrow is more gratifying than a superfast super flat shooting arrow anyday.

[RecurveRookie]

I'm just sittin' here drinking coffee, listening to the grown-ups talk!  I shoot 8 gpp, but really...thanks for the lesson!.....  Dutchman!!  You are cool.  Heavy arrows just for 3D.  Best Wishes!

[Nativestranger]

Originally posted by JamesV:
My previous post on this thread contained a typo. 328 grain arrow from 59# recurve should have read 49# recurve. Fat fingers will do that some time. I build all the bows I shoot myself so there is unlimited warranty even with light arrows. Seriously, I think arrow weight ratio is a personal preference and each person has the right to shot what ever they feel best suits their needs.

On the other hand..........I can see the concern of the professional bowyer where warranty would be an issue. I will let them work that out with their customers.

My thoughts as well. I believe Kegan from Omega longbow also shoots below 8gpp. Gpp should not the only factor in equation whether the bow survives. For me I don't feel the need to shoot below 9gpp but I can't speak for someone else with a much shorter draw.

[Pete W]

I realy can not understand the spitefull negative comments.

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by RecurveRookie:
I'm just sittin' here drinking coffee, listening to the grown-ups talk!  I shoot 8 gpp, but really...thanks for the lesson!.....  Dutchman!!  You are cool.  Heavy arrows just for 3D.  Best Wishes!

I know I am cool:) But I have no choice.... I shoot wooden arrows and my bows are between the 45 and 50 lbs. My woodies are around the 450 grains. That's the reason why I shoot heavy arrows..they are autmatically between the 9 and 10 GPP...

But now I am working on some carbons. They will be around the 8.5 to 8.9 GPP.....

[Nativestranger]

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:
 

Originally posted by RecurveRookie:
I'm just sittin' here drinking coffee, listening to the grown-ups talk!  I shoot 8 gpp, but really...thanks for the lesson!.....  Dutchman!!  You are cool.  Heavy arrows just for 3D.  Best Wishes!

I know I am cool:) But I have no choice.... I shoot wooden arrows and my bows are between the 45 and 50 lbs. My woodies are around the 450 grains. That's the reason why I shoot heavy arrows..they are autmatically between the 9 and 10 GPP...

But now I am working on some carbons. They will be around the 8.5 to 8.9 GPP..... [/b]

What's your draw length Ad? How far are those typical targets on your 3d course and do you need to arc the arrow trajectory much to get them?