Expensive bows

[xtrema312]

One of my favorite custom bows was black glass and gray action wood.  I would love to have that back. I actually like a plainer hunting bow at times because I don’t worry about it as much.  I take the best care possible of my stuff even if not so pretty. I do hunt the nice ones as well. But I don’t take my best stuff in the harshest conditions.  

To me the most important part of a bow is how well it performs, feels and how accurately it shoots for me.  Looks are just icing.  No amount of fancy window dressing will make a bad bow shoot well, and A good deal no matter how good, can make a bad bow shoot great.

Some boyers will build you a plain Jane black glass and action or diamond wood one piece riser for less than their standard clear glass and choice of exotic wood limb veneers and risers if you ask for that and do a little negotiation.  For a couple hundred dollars or some times less, you can still get the grip and draw weight the way you want and all the extra performance the better customs have over budget factory bows.

As far as the Bear Montana in question goes, I have shot them.  For me that is a waste of money.  I can’t stand the grip or the way it shoots.  To be fair, I have felt the same way about bows costing way more.  I wish I loved it.  I could have a couple of them for the price they sell at.  I love a great deal! But there are at least a dozen longbows that blow it away for me, and they are well work the extra money.

[LBR]

Obviously you've never handled a Lami-glass certified Pro Rod Chad.... you missed the point...  

Nope to both.  Fishing isn't my "thing", although I have had a blast with an old cane pole I cut myself, and I've had lousy days with expensive equipment.  The difference?  Catching fish.    

Some folks might have more fun fishing with expensive rods vs. catching fish with cheap rods, but I'd bet most are the opposite.

I didn't miss the point, I made a point (obviously missed).  

I've owned a lot of custom bows, shot a lot more.  Price doesn't make a bow.  Slapping "custom" on it doesn't make a better bow.  What are most of the best shots in the world shooting?  "Production" bows.  Any of them could shoot any quality bow well.  The bow isn't the deciding factor.  

Reminds me of a segment I saw on skeet shooting.  The pros were shooting cheap, beat up old shotguns.  Nothing wrong with customs, but shooting them didn't make the owners shoot with the pros.

 

Some folks may never experience the difference, or truly appreciate it.... others just don't care.

Thing is, there's not a real difference with a lot of them.  I have a "custom" bow hanging in my shop that a buddy has near $1,000 tied up in.  It broke the first time it was pulled to his 28" anchor.  

The most advanced bows aren't "custom" (they are expensive).  Would everyone benefit from them?  Nope--most can't shoot the difference.

 

The thread was about "are expensive custom bows really worth it?"

Yeah, I got that.  The answer is a definate "maybe" or "depends".  

Some "customs" are, for lack of a better word, junk.  Some custom bowyers may put out a great product, but have proven themselves to be totally untrustworthy (remember Fedora Jr.?).  Some are inconsistent.  I've delt with a couple over the years.  

And of course you have guys like Jim Gainey of Black Creek, Roy Hall of Navajo, Ric Anderson, Black Widow, etc. who have reputations for building a great custom bow plus unblemished business practices.

My point was/is, don't feel like you missed the boat if you can't afford to spend $1,000 on a "custom" bow.  There's still plenty to be proud of, still plenty to enjoy, and you can still shoot it very accurately.  

One of the best shots I've known gave out a lot of tournament spankings with an old Bear "Black Bear" recurve.  Probably the ugliest bow I've ever seen.  He took great pride and pleasure in winning with it.

IMO if the only reason you have to like your bow is because it's pretty and/or it cost a lot of money, you REALLY missed the boat.

That's coming from a guy who's owned literally hundreds of bows--from very cheap to very expensive--who currently owns around 20, and has learned over the years that the bows that are worth the most to me wound up costing the least money.

This is not a bash against the good custom bowyers, or anyone who enjoys a custom bow.  Most of my favorites are "custom" bows--just so happened they didn't cost me a lot of money.

The OP seemed to be looking for confirmation that it was just fine to be happy and confident with the bow he has and is shooting well.  For my part, I say yes it is.

[Sixby]

Good post Chad, I agree with Kirk and with you because you really are saying the same thing. Kirk said some people folks may never appreciate a custom, afford one , and otheres just may not care. I believe that is factual. I killed my first bull elk with a Grizzly and enjoyed that experience greatly.
The thread topic of are custom bows worth it could be answered like this . to some they are, to some they are not. Built by some they are and built by others they are not. Kirk says to me and to many others they are. Amen to that.

This does not mean however that anyone is less of a bowhunter because they do not have a custom bow LOL. To me the most custom bows built are self bows built by master bowyeers. But hey I appreciate them all. In fact I was just looking at an old Pearson Predator and thinking what a really neat bow it was.

God bless you all, Steve

[LBR]

The thread topic of are custom bows worth it could be answered like this . to some they are, to some they are not. Built by some they are and built by others they are not.

I agree--a definite "maybe" or "depends".

[Brock]

custom bows can be very economical or to the extremes...and should matter to no one what you prefer other than yourself.  if you shoot a basic plain bow great and dont aspire to have anything pretty or more refined...dont worry about it.

if you are of the ilk that wants both performance and beauty....then sky is limit or at least your pocket is the limit.

When I first started...I could not fathom spending $600 on a Black Widow (yes it was a long time ago..haha).  I thought I would be totally happy with my Jeffery Royal Hunter forever.

As I learned...forever is a long time...and never say never as there is much more to the allure of traditional bowhunting than a simple tool..at least for most of us.

Follow your heart...and your own desires...and dont pay attention to those around you flaunting their high dollar bows.  We all started our traditional walk somewhere...and most of us end up with more than one bow after a few years....not because we are never satisfied...but because they are all so good and we want to experience the nuances of different builders in both beauty and function.  Yes they all shoot an arrow but there are slight differences in grip, smoothness, speed and just that "feeling" of being THE ONE that only a traditional bowhunter can understand.

I started my traditional journey around 1988...first recurve in 1991 I think.  Now with a handful of vintage Browning recurves on the wall....a couple hunting recurves...couple longbows...a couple selfbows and one in process of trying to make myself.  The journey never ends....

Though for me my bought bows are coming to end...I think I want another Robertson and a Strunk then anything else I get will be selfbows I aspire to make myself.  Or so is the plan...hahahaha

[LongStick64]

Brock
I have the same plan, after running through as many bows I could, I've come to appreciate what drew me to this sport in the first place, simplicity. Do I still have some fancy bows on the rack, sure enough, but when I shoot a selfbow and I get darn good accuracy, nothing makes me smile more. So now I spend more time staring at trees and wondering "Would that make a great bow ?"

[LBR]

Maybe it just takes us 20 or so years to get to this place?

[Brock]

LOL.....some go through bows like I go through underwear...others tend to drag out the process over decades.  Everyone is different....as is our journey's.  As long as you are satisfied...it should be of no consequence what is on my wall or anothers.  Only that your wall is as you wish it to be...

if like most of us...you will sell more than you keep...hahahaha.

but as Longstick said...I find myself looking more at the strunk and mattinly sticks on my wall....and of the hickory stave I have worked down to floor tiller stage almost...and wonder why I even need the glass backed bows.
Maybe it is because i am scared every bow I make is going to explode and I need the glass backed just in case. LOL

[ron w]

In the end when you are sending arrows down range at a 3/D target, a stump or a Bull elk. If your having fun and your getting excited......BINGO!! Don't matter what you shoot!!

[Archie]

They say a poor workman blames his tools. I guess that means that if someone knows what they're doing, they can use whatever instrument is available to them.  

That being said, I can play a garage sale piano and make it do its job, but I'd rather play a Steinway.

I'm not as good with a bow, but I do shoot Black Widow bows by choice.  I have some cheaper bows,  but they don't get shot much.   I shoot the ones that please me most.

P.S.  No,  I'm not a concert pianist... It's just an illustration!

[Bowwild]

The fine fellow who started this thread didn't ask if the Bear Montana was a good bow. He asked if custom bows are worth high dollars and why.  

His question generated a lot of excellent input. I find the objective, experienced comments helpful, whether or not they agree with my experience and values or not.  

What I find the least helpful are comments that suggest price is an automatic qualifier or disqualifer of a bow's value to the archer. Sometimes those who go "production" are accused of not being serious about performance. Other times those who spend what some think is too much, are accused of being on a wild goose chase trying to buy accuracy.

One's expectations of a bow contrasted with their actual experience with it should answer whether any bow is "worth it".

I doubt that Macassar or Black & White ebony can be bought in a production bow that costs "just" a couple hundred bucks. Multiple layers of carbon and foam cores aren't cheap. A little antler or horn inlayed here and there (or a FINE Bear Compass)costs a bit extra. Heaven forbid if you want a $100-150 checkering job on the grip --that'll add up too. (Nope, I'm not suggesting checkered treatment is or isn't good for the archer's form.)

Will these extras make the bow shoot any better in average hands? Maybe not. But I don't go fetch my $175 bow when I want to hold a bow while in my lazy chair late at night while I watch and old western. (Yep,I do that and my wife has even stopped rolling her eyes!).

I know that bows are for shooting but if the bow is fine enough to inspire MY admiration, then I get even more out of it. My. 308 will kill many deer that I've had to pass with my bow. (Lots of folks would puke if they looked up single shot Merkels too.) However, I'm an archer for more than just the hunt or the kill.

[bruinman]

I think you can shoot well with pretty much any production bow out there. For me though, I love the attention to detail, exotic woods, and workmanship that goes into a well made custom bow. I think from some, you can expect a smoother draw and in some cases more speed, but i am not a speed freak myself. I just love putting my hand around a very well made beautiful custom bow. I have owned production bows, and shot them just fine. I think most of my customs draw smoother, I know my Bruin's do. All of that said, there is not a thing wrong with production bows. You can do anything with one that you can with the other. Years ago most production bows required a little customizing, especially in the shelf area. I do not think that is much of an issue on production bows today.

One thing about factory bows, I talked a friend into giving up his wheels. He tried two Bear longbows, they looked the same and shot different. Then he tried a Hoyt longbow, it was conciderably better. On the bows that I have done myself, the difference between good enough and you ain't gonna get it, is sandpaper tillering.  I would hope that a custom bow would have fine glue lines and precise tiller work, I know that is not always the case, but I would bet that it is most often the case.

[mtnman1945]

I have a Lukas Novotry (Saluki) built Horn Bow in the Egyptian Design 80# @ 30. I am not the original owner but I do know that he paid $2600 for it, I paid some what less.  To me it is all about this bow being a work of art.  Do I shoot this bow you better believe it.  Its not worth having a bow just to look at. This bow is very very fast with no hand shock.  Then again I have a Bear Alaskan 1958 Model that I have taken at least 27 dear and other smaller game with it  and I really have affection for this bow.  I own the horn bow because I can but I own the Alaskan because my dad gave it to me as a birthday gift in 1958.  Bottom line is I can hit what I shoot at with both.

[StickBowManMI]

Bows whether a custom bow or a production line bow are all primarily useful depending on the feel of the bow to the individual shooter. Its how the bow shoots and how it feels to you that matters.
That said, all my bows are custom bows because they feel good and do the job for me. However, not all of them are in the high end of the scale. Its all up to the shooter as to their feel and comfort with the bow.

[Bob Morrison]

A custom bow is only as goods as the information you give the bowyer. and buying a custom bow from some one else or off the classifieds is not a bow built for you... Grip may be too fat, too small,to high, too low for you. Poundage, draw length may not be right for you. The only way to get a grip right is to visit the bowyer and have it shaped as you hold and the feel until it is what you really want or send him a grip that is exactly what you want for him to copy it. I've heard too many times, I tried Billy Bobs bow and it wasn't for me, it just didn't feel right... Your right it wasn't for you, nor was it built for you. Sorry but that is not the bowyers fault. Yea you got it for half the prices, but it still not for you.... Don't blame the Bowyer.

[Sixby]

Bob, That is a great post. I have heard that so many times because I build grips for the customer.; Someone buys it or trys it and says my bow won't work for them because of the grip. Mis-communication or not enough information can terribly effect the outcome of a bows grip to the customer.

God bless you all, Steve

[LongStick64]

I think Bob is correct in that there is a reason a custom has a significant cost, you can get crazy with the wood choices, grip style, additional items like pinecombs and horn pieces attached to the bow. You can make it as exotic you can afford. That I will agree that makes the custom shine over a classified buy or a non cuctomized selection. What I am not sure of is, does that necessarily make for a better performing bow or better bow in general. Let's consider older Bear bows that are not only still shooting strong but in great demand as well. They make a great argument on the ability of a non custom bow as having a valid place of respect.
Either way there isn't any fault, it simply comes down to expectation, some are happy with less, some aren't happy unless they have all. And some of us float around in the middle and will shoot just about anything and be happy.

[katman]

I have had very good production bows and custom bows. As well as some dogs with both. So I agree with those who posted it depends. Some bows just fit a person right production or custom but may not fit another.

For me a truly well built personalized custom bow, built for me, by a talented and serious bowyer of my choosing is worth every penny. (thanks again Kirk)

I do not think bells and whistles to pretty a bow up help it shoot better but some prefer that, others don't, whatever floats your boat.

[Otto]

This same argument exists for every product ever made.

Is a BMW better than a Ford?

Is a Browning O/U better than a Mossberg?

Is a $3000 Wilson Combat better than a $400 Rock Island?

The argument will continue as long as one guy has more money than the next.

You don't know what you don't know.