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Author Topic: Michigan trad archers  (Read 674 times)

Offline kill shot

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Michigan trad archers
« on: February 11, 2013, 01:53:00 PM »
Has anyone joined MTB but it didn't work out for them due to the inconvience of a long ride to a get-together?Is this stopping you from joining MTB? What are your thoughts of them branching off into chapters.They do a good job of trying to please most but it seems that there are a lot of archers being left out due to work schedules and distance. What are your thoughts?

Offline Steve O

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #1 on: February 11, 2013, 03:14:00 PM »
I think it would fracture an already small MTB more and is a terrible idea.  What could be more centrally located than Grayling?

Offline Jon Stewart

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #2 on: February 11, 2013, 03:20:00 PM »
It's not just the MTB, it's all  state wide archery clubs. Look at the shoot schedules for the state.

Being from the west side of the state like me you will not find many organized shoots over here.  Most are in the middle of the state and to the east but don't let that stop you from going to them.

One of the best around is Elm Hall by Alma.  It's a great family weekend with really good food on saturday night.  Well worth the drive.

I agree that I also would like to see a shoot or two on the west side of the state but when clubs are overloaded with board members from the middle and east side of the state, that is where planned shoots are put on. I don't have time to be on a board of a club so I just drive or don't go.

Offline DBGJR

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2013, 05:56:00 PM »
Starting MTB chapters has been brought up in the past and turned down by the board.The number 1 reason not enough people who want to step up and run each chapter. We only have i believe 6 working board members now who will be putting on the Jamboree this year.As far as the banquet it has been in Grand Rapids, Holland, Ionia and now Brooklyn, it goes where ever anybody wants to step up and put it on. It's alot more work than what people think. Right now Jim and Linda put it on in Brooklyn and do a fantastic job, just check out the menu for this years banquet, well worth the drive.We would love to have an MTB shoot on the west side of the state, if anyone knows of a place just let the board know, but we also would need some help.

Offline xtrema312

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2013, 06:43:00 PM »
I am not currently a member, but should be. Biggest reason I am not is because I never seem to be able to get to events. I am a MLA member because I can get to the spring shoots at times and always make the GLLI.

I don't know about official chapters, but just some small group shooting events on an informal basis wouldn't be a bad thing.

This should probably be on the MTB page, but how many nonmembers are going to see it there if they are not members? I do go there, but not a lot.
1 Timothy 4:4(NKJV)
For every creature of God is good, and nothing is to be refused if it is received with thanksgiving.

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Offline BUCK-EYE

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2013, 07:32:00 PM »
i just renlisted back into the mtb up at ka-zoo. i live in ohio, and have been going to the banquets the last few years. i would travel just about anywhere in the state to go to the banquet. it is top notch! as far as the shoots go, all my kids play travel baseball so its hard to make any, but i enjoy the magazine that we get. great group to join !     :thumbsup:

Offline Steve O

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2013, 07:49:00 PM »
MTB   IS a great group!

As far as shoots in other parts of the state, maybe I can shed some light on that.  I was a board member of a local archery club. We had an active membership and nice facility.  We would seek out MBH and MLA to offer to host their events or set up a course at GLLI.  If you want it, you have to go after it!  Be warned though, it is a   LOT of work putting on one of these shoots...be careful what you wish for.

Offline Bruinbow

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2013, 08:53:00 PM »
I would consider joining MTB if there was a closer place for events . I live in Sparta Mi. and it is a drive to Grayling . Don't always have the time for a whole day half of which is driving . So a chapter within a half hr drive would be nice .

Offline Jon Stewart

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2013, 08:55:00 PM »
X-10 what Steve O posted.  Our family was very active in the MBH back in the 80's. The Muskegon Bowman had an MBH shoot  for a couple of years and it turned out to be the same people doing the same work every year and it just burns you out.

Most of the shoots are in the middle of the state which makes it a bit easier for east side and west people to attend. Grayling and Hastings are a couple of real good shoots and they are more in the middle of the mitten.

Offline Ibow

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2013, 09:56:00 PM »
X 2 what DBGJR and Steve O. said.

Dick, thanks for your many, many years of hard work and dedication to MTB.

Offline Roger Norris

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #10 on: February 12, 2013, 09:32:00 AM »
Steve O nailed it.

That said, I think MTB has the potential to be larger in participation than even MBH. Michigan is a HUGE traditional bowhunting state, and MTB encompasses both recurves and longbows, obviously. I would suggest exploring some "Joint Operations" combining MTB and the MLA.....
"Good Lord....well, your new name is Sledge."
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Offline Jon Stewart

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #11 on: February 12, 2013, 11:07:00 AM »
Roger, each organization has rules and the MLA rule is  longbow only and the MTB welcomes either longbow or recurve. I think the seperation between the two is good as they have their own identity. But whatever the powers that be want to do.

I think the last count is the MTB has just under 300 members which is a pretty good showing.

Offline tomwatson

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #12 on: February 12, 2013, 11:09:00 AM »
Well, we can definitely use the new blood on our council. I will put it to everyone straight here, which I need to do in my Traditional Trails report. This coming June at the Jamboree we will be losing our President and Vice President, who will be stepping down after years of service. I am not sure if they will be replaced or not. My wife and I, as the acting Treasurer and Secretary, are in no way shape or form ready to take over the duties of all Four council positions. This said, we are not sure what the future holds in store for our club. In the past year, we have already lost one councilman and we have another (who lives in Georgia, Dave Luscher)ending their three year term due to health issues. I know that a lot of people fear being on a council. But, my wife and I have full time jobs and we manage to occupy two of the busiest positions, and that said only equates to about 5 hours of work a year. As a regular council member, I attended three meetings a year and most of those were at shoots that I was already participating in. In order to get more out of this club we need the participation. At last years Jamboree General Membership meeting, we only had TWO out of the 300 general members attend. The Jamboree does not run itself, and I am amazed year after year how we can operate this with only council members. However, in the last two years we have had a few members step up to help with the set-up and tear-down of this event. To those members MTB is very grateful. I would love to see the OLD DAYS of MTB, but if no one is going to put the time and effort into the club, then it is going to fold eventually. Leaving everyone left standing and saying "What ever happened to the Grayling Shoot."


Tom
“To chase game with the ghosts of other hunters from other times-that's all he really asks." - The Restless Spirit.

Online Ray Lyon

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #13 on: February 12, 2013, 12:14:00 PM »
We have a bingo.
Tradgang Charter Member #35

Offline tomwatson

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #14 on: February 12, 2013, 01:09:00 PM »
The combination of the MLA and MTB is just not feasible. First, we have a lot of bleed over membership (including myself, both MTB and MLA member). Second, the MLA was formed to promote the Longbow as a hunting weapon. MTB was formed due to the fact that a lot of recurve shooters wanted to be part of an organization and have a shoot back in the day. Of course, the Recurve shooters were not allowed to shoot recurves at the GLLI, so came the Jamboree. This being said, I would like to see MTB get involved with more activites for it's members, but even our rabbit hunt this year did not break any record attendance. I think that the few events that we do have we need to promoted better. For instance, we are looking at bringing back the Pheasant Hunt again, with a possible new location toward the west side of the state. Once again though we need more member input and participation to get the old MTB ball rolling again. I always wanted a council member to be appointed as the events chairman (Jamboree contact, Pheasant and Rabbit Hunt). Also, we need someone to take over merchandise to get some ideas for different things.

Tom
“To chase game with the ghosts of other hunters from other times-that's all he really asks." - The Restless Spirit.

Offline kill shot

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2013, 01:43:00 PM »
Thanks for all your response. I also put this on the MTB forum but posted here also for non MTB members to see and respond to. As far as a lot of work goes, you guys are right. It's always the "faithfull few" that gets the ball rolling and make things happen. I wouldn't mind discussing with others that are local with me about this topic and maybe with our combined efforts could get something to happen. I noticed here some are real close to Kent City. With this said, there is a saying that goes "out of small acorns do big oaks grow".

Offline DBGJR

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2013, 06:50:00 PM »
Thanks Chuck. I have enjoyed being on the MTB Board and will probably continue because i don't want to see the orginization fold up. Before we even think about State Chapters we need to make sure we have Board members to run the orgization and keep the Jamboree going. Brian, there are alot of MTB members in the area so if something does get set up it would be a good turn out.

Offline Roger Norris

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #17 on: February 12, 2013, 08:03:00 PM »
I have been an on and off member of MTB for a long time. "Off" only because of forgetting to re-up.

Looked at logically, the MTB should be the premier traditional organization in the state. Yet it seems to be faltering.

My impression is that the MLA is moving ahead of the MTB at a rapid rate (if I'm wrong, I apologize). I'm betting that is a people thing. I think highly of the leadership team over at MLA...Mike Vines as President is a top notch choice.

Thre are also some good folks involved in MTB (guys like Chuck and Jon).I'm aware WHY there are differences, my suggestion of some "Joint Operations" is not meant to dilute one (the purity of longbows in the MLA) but to boost the other (MTB)The Grayling shoot is ...was...awesome. So is the GLLI. Maybe a MAJOR sized combined shoot would help boost MTB.

It would be pretty sad if recurve shooters had no club to call ther own...

I sure thank all of those who have labored for MTB so long....I understand what looks to me like "burnout". Maybe it's time for some of us who have enjoyed the Grayling shoot for so long to step up...
"Good Lord....well, your new name is Sledge."
Ron LaClair upon seeing the destruction of his new lock on the east gate

"A man that cheats in the woods will cheat anywhere"
G. Fred Asbell

Offline kill shot

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2013, 01:44:00 PM »
Part of the decline is my fault. I guess I need to sign up. I used to be a member. Is there another place to discuss this topic as this is a forum to pow wow bowhunting? Maybe I'll e-mail my concerns to a member. What do you guys think?

Offline Ibow

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Re: Michigan trad archers
« Reply #19 on: February 14, 2013, 10:49:00 AM »
Some interesting thoughts for sure. I haven't been involved with MTB for quite a few years now but I have to say it saddens me to think what the future may have in store. Can't really say for sure what's happened but it's disheartening to say the least. In the interest of stimulating some interest and discussion, some rambling thoughts - if the thread needs to be moved, hopefully someone will. It's of interest to all I hope -

Politically -

Now that the great crossbow/technology battles are over and deer management in general here in MI has become so politicized, a good share of our meaning and purpose has been lost. At the height of MTB's popularity, we stood side by side with other bowhunting interests pleading the case from our perspective. We had people from MTB appearing regularly at the NRC and populating DNR committees.  Now, to be totally honest, it seems somewhat pointless. There's issues, but nothing of consequence. About the only value in doing so now would be to keep membership informed of issues that may not be specific to bowhunting. Working in this way for the membership wasn't the sole purpose or function of MTB during those days but it did play a big part. The membership appreciated having us there representing our perspective and their opinions. I know they did - I heard from them.

Are there or could there be issues that need to be or could still be addressed? I don't know. One such idea that's been suggested to me over and over is lobbying for a trad season. It would take years and lots of research and effort but it could be done. MI's licensing structure and regs seem to be on a little bit more restrictive path and in light of that, I think those who have suggested such a thing could potentially be on to something - there's room for it. Everyone else seems to have a piece of the "pie". Why shouldn't we? With a little imagination, there's a few issues I guess that could be addressed. I think MTB has to identify with and associate more effectively with other organizations that share similar interests.

Clearly if MTB's influence was to be felt, membership numbers would need to increase - a LOT.

Organizationally -

The age old issue of whether MTB wants to be an "organization" or a "club" is always out there. The Council needs to determine one way or another which direction it wants to go in and then focus in that direction. If you're a club, you do things "club-like" in the way you make decisions. If you're an "organization", you do things that are "organizational" in the way you make decisions.

Trad Trails is the heart and soul of MTB's way of communicating it's theme and reason to exist. Whether or not it's something the Council likes to hear, many, many members see that yearly membership fee as a subscription to the magazine. When renewal time rolls around and they think back to the past few issues and see that all that's there is one or two, 2 page stories and four pages of ads touting the Jamboree, Banquet or Trad Bowhunter magazine and a number of business cards from members who do "trad" stuff, well... it makes spending that renewal money a little less appealing.
This is ABSOLUTELY no reflection upon or accusation towards Dan - he's done a great job with that magazine for many, many years and I hope he continues on. But when he's got nothing to work with as far as material, it's tough. The answer? I don't know but a couple things come to mind.
One, regular contributors - we've got several guys here in MI that are very, very successful trad bowhunters who've made "names" for themselves and have great reputations in the trad bowhunting community. A few that come to mind - Steve Osminski, Bryan Burkhardt, Denny Sturgis, Darryl Quidort. Many others. There are many, many fantastic bowyers and trad bowhunting retailers right here - they need to be approached. They have MUCH to offer. They don't need to write a book for each issue but a few lines with a few picts go a long ways and is not at all burdensome. It's only a few times a year.
Two, incentives for those who are willing to step up a bit and contribute. Jot down a few lines, send a few picts and send it in. People LOVE that stuff. Yearly memberships or renewals? T-shirts? Hats?
Three - a little color. It's expensive but it's a good investment. There's ways to reduce costs.
I don't know but one thing I do know from sitting in both the membership secretary's seat and the editor's seat for many years - the magazine needs to be enhanced.

We have to re-emphasize family and kids. There's nothing new in that - it was a huge part of MTB 's identity back in the 90's and early 00's. It needs to have an emphasis put on it again. For almost all of us, that's what it's all about. For many of us, it's grandkids now.

Not sure how often it's been done but the bylaws need to be reviewed yearly and updated. Times and circumstances change.

Membership status -

This has been a confusing issue since day one and admittedly I did very little to "fix" it during my time with MTB. Some people renew at the Jamboree, some at the Expo, some at the Banquet, some in August, some in November. When they renew at the Expo, do they get a year and a half or a half year? When they renew at the Banquet, same thing? How about when they send it in April? It gets to be confusing for the secretary, the membership and expensive for MTB when a guy renews at different times of the year because some end up with a year and a half, some with a partial year.
ALL memberships need to expire at the SAME time EVERY year with no exceptions. It would be cost effective and make things much easier for the membership secretary and more importantly for the membership. Pick a day and time and stick with it. Send out membership renewal cards within weeks of receiving that fall issue???
I see it spelled out on almost every bowhunting site I frequent when talk of MTB is bantered about - "I was a member but I forgot that my membership expired and just forgot to renew."
Stick with ONE date and time of year... No more renewing here, there and everywhere.

New memberships and renewals - when someone renews or joins, make sure they receive a confirmation letter in the mail within 5 business days of the time it was postmarked. When I did the secretary's job, I had one form letter for new members and one for renewals and I simply changed the name to whom it was addressed with each membership and it seemed much more personal. From time to time i updated the form letters with news, info and reminders. This would, could or should be done via email to keep costs at a minimum. If they don't have an email address, print it and send it snail mail. People want to know they belong, their efforts in joining or renewing have been acknowledged and they are a part of something. Getting that confirmation of "belonging" is HUGE.

At some point the Council is going to have to move in the direction of allowing membership to join or renew online. I know it's been talked about for years but it needs to be done for obvious reasons.

The Internet is HUGE and traditional or not, traditional bowhunters are using it - we need to take advantage of it.

Communication -

If you are going to survive and THRIVE, you need to communicate with every single member and make EACH one feel as though they are a part of it. Now days almost every single person has email and in general, the membership needs to be communicated with on a more regular basis. On the membership or renewal form, make sure they have a LEGIBLE email address and if they haven't filled it out, call them on the phone. Keep an up to date list and communicate REGULARLY with them. It's inexpensive and takes very little time or effort.

Banquet/Jamboree -

Honestly, I don't feel there's a lot to be improved upon. Both are well run and especially the Jamboree is unique to MTB because of the location and of course the 2-D course which is amazing. Maybe the Banquet could be a little more centrally located but I certainly understand why it is where it is, depending on the year.
Re vendors at the Jamboree, I don't think the Jamboree was ever meant to be vendor orientated - it's a shoot. Yet, when the Jamboree was hugely attended, the vendors showed up because there was a reason to be there (plus, they enjoyed the shoot itself). The bottom line is, the Jamboree is still a shoot and always will be. Attendance will dictate the number of vendors that want to participate. Are there incentives to get them there? Of course - a little imagination could be used.

Re chapters, right now, I think there only needs to be one chapter - a statewide one. I'm afraid setting up chapters now would further fracture an already fragile situation and as Dick mentioned, right now, who?

Re a merger between the two trad groups? I'm not on the Council and am just a member but I wouldn't care to see that. There is too much identity associated with each group. It really should stay that way. Re combined activities or events? Of course - we've done it successfully in the past.

The bottom line is the bowhunting landscape in MI has changed and while not sacrificing any "traditional" principles, MTB has to change it's identity and approach a bit as well. There are so many ideas out there that haven't been tapped into that just can't be typed into a 15 minute reply to an Internet thread and need to be talked about face to face in a group setting.

The "big" issues of the day are gone now and what we've got left (and what we've always had) is spreading the word re traditional bowhunting. We're not going to grow anymore by playing offense or even defense to all the real & perceived threats to bowhunting in MI. The best way to attract bees is with honey. MTB's mission and purpose needs to be looked at and redefined and when it is, it needs to be communicated clearly, massively and effectively. People need to know what the benefits are to "belonging". It's part of it but it's just not enough anymore to say we're a bunch of people sitting around a campfire carving out bows from a hunk of osage. There's 300,000 Bowhunters in MI - how cool would it be to "convert" 25% or more of them to the joys of hunting with a recurve or longbow?

In NO way should anyone read this and cast any doubt or blame on the past or current leadership. I to was a part of it and those currently serving are just flat out burned out and are frankly in survival mode now. I'm not so sure it's new blood we need as much as it is new ideas.

MTB is and was a good organization and can continue to be. I'd sure feel bad about seeing it fade away.

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