Michigan trad archers

[xtrema312]

I have to go back and read a to catch up, but so far I like that this is on Pow Wow.  This is about trad bow hunting because the organization is about bow hunting.  This may have started with the MTB, but I am sure these types of issues exist in many other states and organizations.  This discussions could be of some benefit to others facing the same issues.  Being on Pow Wow could also get some input from other organizations. I would think that the MTB would be open to suggestions and input from other trad bow hunting clubs or organizations that have faced these issues, made changes, and seen the outcome.

It could even be better if the post was about trad bow hunting originations and how to improve them vs. a Michigan title some may not read.

Is there anywhere on here that we could do something to help different organizations communicate about club issue with membership, technology, ……….. that could benefit all groups and trad bow hunting as a whole?  Maybe there is something or could be something in the goups and origination section.  I think this site is a huge benefit to trad bow hunting. Just think what would happen if we could get most of the trad gang MI members on this site into a Michigan trad bow hunting origination.

[Ray Lyon]

Todd's correct. While this related directly with MTB, it applies to bow hunting and representation accross the country.

Chuck, thanks for taking the time to write all of those issues down.  It should be addressed by the organization accordingly as a working suggestion.

[Roger Norris]

Good stuff Chuck

[kill shot]

Chuck,your right, it would be very sad to see MTB just fade away. You are also right about people just letting there membership run out due to the fact that all they seem to get out of it is the traditional trails newsletter. I did that. Maybe what needs to be done are get togethers that are more non formal. What I saying about that is the banquet. It's not exactly a place to go and make friends but more of going with your buddies out to eat with some entertainment. Some have an invisable sign around there neck that says "DO NOT DISTURB". Most people like to be included. As far as the entertainment (guest speaker) goes, it may be about a topic that don't spark everyones fire. With this said, what fires you up? What kindles the fire you once had? With me it's the rustic setting. Also the round table so to speak where no one is the head of the table.

GREAT STUFF IBOW!!

I especially agree with your assessment about the political issues.

While you can motivate people short term by focussing on what you are "against," if you want to keep them interested long term you better focus on what you are "for."

[Steve O]

I edited my first post to take out the part about moving it to the MI page.  I was worried it would get pulled and did not want this topic to disappear.

Chuck knows what he is talking about. I help take down the course when I can at the Jamboree, but often it is a short day trip for us.

We all can and should do more!

[Ibow]

Originally posted by kill shot:
Maybe what needs to be done are get togethers that are more non formal. What I saying about that is the banquet. It's not exactly a place to go and make friends but more of going with your buddies out to eat with some entertainment. Some have an invisible sign around there neck that says "DO NOT DISTURB". Most people like to be included.

Bingo. That's the key Brian. ALL people like to feel included and a part of things. That's exactly what builds a good, solid and working organization. When that occurs, you get contribution. If you help build it, you've got a stake in it.    

BTW, I remember you from those years as secretary. I always thought you had the coolest last name.  

[kill shot]

Chuck, When I'm on a trout stream, the name is just what it implies. At least I think so.

[Ibow]

[kill shot]

I'm thinking about going over to Tom Hackbart's place to shoot my bow. It's one of the only places where you can shoot a trad bow and not feel like a turd in a punch bowl.

[kill shot]

I'm thinking about going over to Tom Hackbart's place to shoot my bow. It's one of the only places where you can shoot a trad bow and not feel like a turd in a punch bowl.

[Arwin]

The MLA and MTB are great organizations.  
 
 Fortunately, there are a couple events that are within driving distance for me like Elm Hall, GLLI,and The Bunny Stomp.

 Unfortunately, there are also a few events that are too far to drive with the way gas prices have been. Anything outside of a 2hr drive is not attainable for me.

 I would like to see an increase in events held to accommodate archers from every corner of the state. Maybe even a collaboration from the two organizations.  
 This way each organization retains it's individuality while increasing participants in traditional archery related events.  

 At the end of the day, all you really need is to create your own event by calling a few buddies and  plan a hunt, hit up a 3-D range or shoot some stumps.

 Honestly, I shoot alone or with my children 99% of the year with a few gatherings sprinkled in.
 If fuel wasn't an issue or league fee's at the nearest location weren't out of my range, I would love to make that alone time 50% as I find more joy shooting with others.

 I'm sure there are others in the same position who have a sense of isolation and are wanting some events closer to home. It requires a lot of leg work and volunteering.  

[finkm1]

Are Elm Hall (summer shoot) and the Bunny Stomp MTB events or are they put on by private individuals?

Im like Arwin, I shoot in my backyard or maybe with a friend. I have gone to the Grayling shoot once and maybe again this summer. Have been to the Elm Hall rabbit hunt a couple times and the Elm Hall summer shoot once. As was stated, with the price of gas it is hard to go to alot of events that are far away. Every year I say im going to go to more events but work or something else gets in the way. I AM going to try to make it to the Compton shoot in June because one of these years they will move it to another state.
The Bunny Stomp next saturday is 17 miles from my house, I have the Weekend off and you can bet your boots im gonna be flinging arrows at Sleepy Hollow!!!

[DBGJR]

No, neither are MTB shoots.The Elm Hall shoot is put on by Pine River Recreation Club, not sure about the Bunny Stomp but i think it is put on by a few guys every year. MTB does have a Rabbit Hunt that is hosted by the Pine River Recreation Club in January. They also host the MBH District 5 Rabbit hunt in January as well.

[kill shot]

The bunny stomp is out of the question for me. I get out of work at 3:30 am. To go home and make the long drive and hunt with no sleep would kinda suck the fun out of it. Plus gas is 3.95 a gallon. Afternoon events are more for my ambition. Local events are even better. As far as locality goes, there are many that live too far away no matter where the event may be.

[Mojostick]

Ibow makes some great points.

From my perspective, what is the point of MTB in the current state?

Why should I join?

What is the mission of MTB? Is it advocacy for traditional (all) bowhunting opportunity or is it a club of great people who'd rather plan outings and weekend shoots?

Sure, it can be both, but without serious advocacy, it really is more of a club with a couple 200 members.

I'm a member of other "outdoor orgs" because I believe in what they advocate. While some here may not like or agree with QDMA, I do.  

Deer hunting is typically only as good as the deer habitat where one is hunting. In much of northern Michigan, it's maturing forests that are hunters worst enemy, not PETA or HSUS. I believe keeping deer herds in balance, along with getting more private landowners to better manage the habitat on their holdings is paramount to the future of hunting in northern forests. Not just for deer, but habitat management is key for turkey, pheasants, grouse, etc.

I also think the Michigan buck tagging system has been a little too liberal over the past 30 years, when we've ranged from allowing 4 bucks a year to 2 bucks a year. I prefer allowing one buck per year, and then let anyone decide what single buck is a "trophy" to them, but if we're going to allow two bucks in any season, then there should be a bit of a higher restriction on both tags. To me, that's totally reasonable.
With compounds and xbows now being 50 yard weapons and inline ML's now being 250 yard weapons, trying more restrictive buck tags is a change that's worth a 5 year trial, in my mind.  

Anyone who knows about trout fishing, especially east of the Mississippi, also knows that constantly staying on top of good stream habitat is also paramount. It's the same with hunting.

Also see DU and duck habitat.

Here's QDMA's mission statement...
“The QDMA's mission is to promote sustainable, high quality white-tailed deer populations, wildlife habitats, and ethical hunting experiences through education, research, and management in partnership with hunters, landowners, natural resource professionals,and the public.”

So what is MTB's plan or mission?

Ohio bowhunters hunt from early September all the way thru February. So why can't we? I've personally talked to the head of the Ohio deer program and he told me that the bowhunting kill in Jan-Feb is basically insignificant as far as hurting the resource, yet it offers nearly 5 additional weeks of bowhunting opportunity.

I'll join the first Michigan hunting group to pick up that mantle.

I guess my question is, if I join MTB, what am I joining? Am I joining a group that will advocate changes I want to see happen or would they actually fight changes I want to see happen?

Truth is, I don't know for sure and I won't join a group if I am unsure that they will turn around and use my money to fight against my goals.

See the point? By having a group that even current members aren't really sure of the direction, or can't explain the benefits of joining, who wants to join it?

Originally posted by Mojostick:
 

I guess my question is, if I join MTB, what am I joining? Am I joining a group that will advocate changes I want to see happen or would they actually fight changes I want to see happen?

Truth is, I don't know for sure and I won't join a group if I am unsure that they will turn around and use my money to fight against my goals.

That's part of the problem when a group becomes overly political.  Seldom do all members agree on everything.  It only takes a few battles on various issues and before you know it, you've alienated a large portion of your memmbership.
 
I have chosen to not support organizations and publications that I feel do not support all ethical hunters, regardless of their equipment coices or methods.

[Arwin]

Hey Mojo,
 If I'm not mistaken, I believe the MLA is partnered with MBH for votes counted towards political issues concerning bow hunters.
 Not sure if MTB is, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were.

 I think at the time, neither MTB nor MLA are political organizations. Many members of both organizations are also members of MBH, which I am not a member of currently.

 It would cost the average person a small fortune every year to belong to all the organizations, LOL! Wish there was a discount for members of organizations that are affiliated with each other on a political level, that way the average person could belong to both.

 It's hard to put a price on an organization that fights for what we love. Sometimes you are stuck having to choose one over the other.

[Steve Chappell]

This is an excellent thread and conversation that I bet every organization and volunteer can relate to.  As someone who has worked for a trade association, which relies on volunteers to run, is a former MLA Council Member, runs a traditional archery league and assist in the Michigan Bunny Stomp...getting people to get involved is an interesting subject. From my years working in and being part of the volunteer world, I would say the #1 piece that dictates success/growth, failure/decline or somewhere in the middle is the people leading the organization.  Next #2 is someone that is the glue that plays a uniquely important role in keeping the organization grounded in good time and bad and can deal with change. And, #3 knowing when it is time to turn the rains over to new people with new ideas and enthusiasm then actually letting the new and enthusiastic people take control and move the organization forward.

As it pertains to #1...I have always believed good enthusiastic people with good personalities who like other people...naturally and effortlessly draw people to them and their organization.  The key is getting these people into you organization and then letting them move on or reduce their role before they reach burn out. This means letting new people with new ideas actually take the rains and supporting them. It also means having a good balance of leaders\\idea people and workers.

As it pertains to #2, there is one person who always comes to my mind as the “glue” person that hold one organization together and that is Ken Scollick with MLA.  Ken gives to MLA like no other persona I know....he has so many years of experience serving MLA he is truly invaluable as it pertains to historical knowledge. He is a hard worker too. Along with the wealth of knowledge, Ken also possesses an extremely valuable trait that has served MLA well; his ability to be open minded and accept, embrace and move forward change.  He can educated new people on the past to help avoid prior mistakes but is willing to move forward with the new ideas of the new Council.

To point #3... Over time things change and it is normal for good people and leaders running organizations to burn out if they are not relieved. In a perfect world, people should have moved on or given up responsibilities before they reached burn out. It is at this point, and what is done (in my opinion) that makes all the difference on whether an organization goes into decline or keeps moving forward.  In my experience, often the handful of people that are holding the organization together, stating they want new blood and to turn over the rains, cannot or will not let go. The new people who are enthusiastically attracted into the organization leadership roles, on the premise of being able to move their new ideas forward, are instead overrules by what I like to call the “Old Guard” who hold on to old ways and outdated thoughts.  Eventually the new blood is driven out...all of which can be very destructive.  

MLA has been blessed by some awesome leaders and the current Council is certainly no exception.  They were struggling for a number of years too but thanks to their ability to attract new leaders and let them change the dynamics of MLA, today MLA is thriving and growing. As I am sure Ken will tell you there are members who are solid and fluid but they are all important members.  

I personally support all the MI traditional archery organizations and most of the national ones through membership...regardless of whether I can make their events of not or the fact I prefer shooting a recurve.  There are simply way too many events these days that cater to traditional archery for anyone to make them all.  

MTB...I would like to see a multi year membership rather than having to re-up year to year.  A year goes by so quickly and lends itself to forgetting to re-up. A multi year membership would be less work to administer too.

The Michigan Bunny Stomp would be an excellent event for the MTB to work with the current organizers to bring under its umbrella of events.

[Roger Norris]

I have been to the MBH rabbit hunt, and the MTB hunt this year. The non-organizational Michigan Bunny Stomp surpasses them all. Serious question....why do you suppose that is?