Another tuning question, Caribow Peregrine

[Flying Dutchman]

I am shooting a Caribow Peregrine, 45lbs@29" (my drawlenght). The bow is a fast hybrid, close to centercut.

I use Goldtip traditional shafts, 1535 (0.600), 30.5 BOP, a 100 grains fieldtip, a 35 grains nock and three 5 inch feathers. I know the FOC is low, but that's what I want for 3D shoots.

Looking at Stu Millers spine calculator, they are spot on and the same dynamic spine as my woodies, which are tuned to perfection.

Only difference is that my woodies are 10 GPP and the GT's 9. Same FOC.

My woodies are flying way better while the arrow-characteristics are the same, except for arrow weight. Am I doing something wrong here, or do just have to get used to carbons and/or lower weight???

[Pete W]

Are the wood and carbon the same diameter?, and is the noc fit the same?

[Flying Dutchman]

Nope, the wood is 11/32 and the carbon is 5/16. Nock fit on carbons is bit tighter

[onewhohasfun]

I am thinking at your draw they are too weak. Add a layer of velcro to your shelf and see what happens. I use an emery board to sand my nocks.

[Manitoba Stickflinger]

I'd 2nd the too weak suggestion!

[Flying Dutchman]

Okay, problem is solved. First I gave the nocks a better fit (they come of the string easily and without to much friction now, but stay put).
Then I started bareshafting. I started right away at 20 yards. I didn't expect much, but to my astonishment I shot the bareshafts dead-center in the middle of the target, together with my fletched arra's.

This underlines how important a good nock fit is!

This also proofs that my form is OK    

And it also proves that Stu was spot on...

Knowing that they were okay, I tried the fletched arrows till 50 yards. They fly great and group perfect. I am a happy camper now  

[Nativestranger]

Wow never thought an overly tight nock can cause that kind of problem. The nock fit with my stock darcon is very tight. Quite a bit of effort needed to pluck a nocked arrow off the string.

Oh and it's great that you have the full length GT 1535 tuning well cos I have a bunch of them waiting for me to Fletch.    :D

[Flying Dutchman]

Nockfit is highly under-estimated....  
And I ordered my 2nd 3 dozen GT's 1535.... Yihaaa!

[Nativestranger]

Hope you guys don't mind me reviving this thread. I have been trying to find a suitable arrow for my Peregrine and really struggled with it. I have a bunch of 29" 1535 which should tune perfect according to SMDSC. But they just flew badly and way left. Bow is LH 43# @ 28". I draw 28". 12 strand xs2 string. Arrows are 29" gt 1535 trads with 100g points, standard inserts and 4" feathers.

I tried the bare shaft and the arrow was sticking almost at 45° to the target nock right! Thinking it could be a false weak indication I tried increasing the point weight to 125g and they flew worse.  Then I came upon a robin hooded arrow that after cutting off the bad part ended up 28.2". Much better but still a bit weak. Stuck a piece of leather about 0.06" thick to the shelf and reduced the point weight to 85g. Now the bare shaft is sticking straight in the target and dead center where I point. However this arrow turns out to be 17# overspined according to dsc, too short for my shooting style and below the min 8 gpp weight. Where do I go at this point? Cut shorter and add point weight or build up the strike plate some more or move to full length 3555 and tune from there? Please help.

[SS Snuffer]

I draw 29" and can use the same arrow with both bows. 1/2" in arrow length makes a BIG difference point weight very little, that's the way carbons work.
Good luck

[Nativestranger]

Yes a shorter shaft changed the dynamic spine far more than point weight. I am just surprised at the spine requirements for this bow or maybe I am just doing something wrong with my form or DSC calcuation inputs.

[Moots]

Ad,
I knew it wouldn't take you long to get it dialed in!  Good shooting.

[Fanto]

nock fit is so so important! such dramatic effects when its too tight!

I make all my strings and leave them all a little small and build up with dental floss. i dont mind a little mucking aorund now and then to achieve a good fit. its worth it. arrows out of spine by 30lbs fly better than ones with a death clutch nock fit

[Flying Dutchman]

Originally posted by Nativestranger:
Hope you guys don't mind me reviving this thread. I have been trying to find a suitable arrow for my Peregrine and really struggled with it. I have a bunch of 29" 1535 which should tune perfect according to SMDSC. But they just flew badly and way left. Bow is LH 43# @ 28". I draw 28". 12 strand xs2 string. Arrows are 29" gt 1535 trads with 100g points, standard inserts and 4" feathers.

I tried the bare shaft and the arrow was sticking almost at 45° to the target nock right! Thinking it could be a false weak indication I tried increasing the point weight to 125g and they flew worse.  Then I came upon a robin hooded arrow that after cutting off the bad part ended up 28.2". Much better but still a bit weak. Stuck a piece of leather about 0.06" thick to the shelf and reduced the point weight to 85g. Now the bare shaft is sticking straight in the target and dead center where I point. However this arrow turns out to be 17# overspined according to dsc, too short for my shooting style and below the min 8 gpp weight. Where do I go at this point? Cut shorter and add point weight or build up the strike plate some more or move to full length 3555 and tune from there? Please help.

I really think it must be your form or a too tight nock fit. I use these arrows for a 47 lbs high speed recurve now. It is centercut ( but 1/16 before center with strikeplate) and I use a 6 strands string. I add 15 grains to the nock to make the shaft somewhat stiffer. I didn't bare shaft yet, but they fly great!


Some additional info: my nock weight is around the 27.5 grains, cresting and feathers add another 24 grains. Shaft is 30.5, 100 grains field tip and standard gt insert. I draw 29, so I can shorten the shaft if nessecary with bare shafting, which I don't expect however. I use 5 inch shielded real turkey feathers, helical.

[Nativestranger]

I suspect the weight you added to the rear end of arrow and the fact the bow is cut before center made it tune right. I did repeat the bare shaft test at different distance and the results are quite consistent with the 28.2" arrow shooting the best. I guess i will try adding another layer of leather to the strike plate to make the rest of my arrows work. It makes the bow look ugly though. Which bow are you shooting those arrows with?

[Flying Dutchman]

Your peregrine is, with strikeplate, just a fraction before center. At least, mine are.... I calculate with + 1/32 for my peregrines. I checked this with Abe.
I shoot 1535's with my Phoenix too. With the added weights. For my peregrine I don't use the extra weight anymore.
I went out for a shoot this morning with my Phoenix and 1535's and popped balloons at 40 and 50 meters. My guess is there can't be much wrong with those arra's then.

They give me 8.6 gpp and a foc of 9.5%. This setup goes well over the 200 fps I think.

But the way I shoot and you shoot are likely different, as every archer has its own style.

Sometimes bareshafting tells more about your form then about your shaft...

Keep in mind that carbon shafts can differ in spine value a lot. I inspected a small batch of 12 once and measured differences as big as 7 lbs on the digital spine tester ...

You could also add weight to the nock. I glue screws in with construction glue, which expands after drying, the are rock solid in. Another benefit is that they protect your shaft against robin hoods. Make sure that the head of the screw fits in your hollow shaft.

Screws come in all kind of varieties and weights and are cheap. Take your nocks and one shaft to the iron store, to be sure they fit.

[Nativestranger]

Agree. Popping balloons at 50m. Who cares if they don't bare shaft right. Yes I shoot 3 under with a dynamic release which could affect the spine. Thanks for the screw tip. Robin hood proof shafts are something I need try. I got whole bunch of destroyed shafts and the sad thing is they are due to bad luck robin hoods not skill.