My Bare shaft experiment?????

[Bullfrog 1]

I am shooting a 64 inch Dwyer original Longbow. I am drawing to 30 inches for 61 pounds. Bow is not cut to center. I have messed aroujnd with bare shafts over the years. Seems like some bows just wont do it. I am shooting a GT 55-75 31 inch with 200 grain point. Regular insert. IT impacts with my fletched shafts but shows way week in flight. Fletched shafts fly perfect. I have always shot 5.5 inch shields just cause I like them. I for the heck of it put a 125 grain point on and fly is perfectly straight bare? Could these really be this week for me. I wopuld think 75-95 would be wat too stiff??  Thanks.   BILL

[Bullfrog 1]

Sorry for all the typos guys.   BILL

[Nativestranger]

How far from center cut is that bow? Using 0.125" from center and your values in dsc shows you are way overspined with the 125g point and still overspined with the 200g point.

[xtrema312]

So with the point change the bare shaft flies real nice but does it still group with the fletched shafts?

[Bullfrog 1]

Yes. Just high.  I thi k it's a. 1/8 th from center.

[Shawn Leonard]

Add more point weight, you are still stiff and getting an opposite reaction. Shawn

[ISP 5353]

My guess would be that it was too stiff even with the 200gr tips.  Screw in a 300 grain tip and see what it looks like.  Still in the end, if your arrow flight is good, then go with it.  Some bows just do not shoot as well with what you think should be the correct arrow combo.

[xtrema312]

I think properly tuned arrow can fly a little weak looking in flight and still hit in the right area if you bow is cut out a ways from center.  I could be wrong on that as I don’t shoot bows cut much out from center. However, I do see a little more weak looking flight with my cut to center vs. recurves cut well past center.

I don't think you were way too stiff.  A false stiff arrow will fly weaker in appearance or more erratic as you stiffen the shaft more.  It will push harder off the riser.  You can always try to add point weight just to check that out for sure.

Your arrow was flying weak in appearance and you lightened the point weight to make it better.   That sounds like a weak arrow in the first place to me.  Based on a 30” draw and 61# draw weight, I would say you were most likely weak if your 1/8” out from center is correct.  I do see some odd stuff with several inches of extra shaft and XFOC, but you don’t have anything like that.  I would expect to see a lower FOC arrow with 1” arrow overhang fly like a bullet when you get in the right spine area.  

I think you are getting there with the lighter point weight.  Maybe you went a hair too far, but only you can tell with some experimenting.  The problem is that the lighter point will take your arrow down too light.  Anything under 175 up front will go under 8 gpp. I think you need some weight tubes or a different shaft to keep weight up.

[pruiter]

Over spine arrows always appeared to fly better for me. Thought it was just my bad release. My setup for my Dwyer longbow (55@28} with a 28 inch Draw.

Heritage 250 cut to 30" 100 grain inserts, 125 field point.

fly like darts for me

[onewhohasfun]

Based on your 30 inch draw I'm saying weak.
Pad your shelf a little and try the 200's

[RLA]

So the arrow you listed with the 200gr point is about 520gr 8.5gpp GT 55-75 correct?

I think with your 30" draw length 61# your arrow is week & you would need the GT 75-95 with more point weight & gpp for your 61#@30" bow, maybe more like a GT 75-95 650gr finished arrow weight.

just my 2 cents worth

[Nativestranger]

You are under the minimum GPP with the 125g point.  Do you feel excessive vibration or noise from the shot? I would contact the bowyer to know if it's safe to shoot that weight from the bow

[Bullfrog 1]

Yea, I would NOT shoot it with the 125. Arrow way too light for me. I have some heavier points coming to try if that is the case.  BILL

[Cherokee Scout]

I have done a lot of barshafting on a lot of different bows using Gold Tips. If you are pulling 60#, 30" and 200 grain up front, 31" shaft, then I agree they are too weak for the most bows are cut at riser. Unless you are past center, too weak.

[Cherokee Scout]

After re-reading my above post I need to make a correction. I said "unless you are past center, too weak", that is not correct. What I should have said is that if the shafts are too weak you can build out the shelf away from center to help. I suggest you try that if you do not want to use the lighter points.

[Easykeeper]

At what distance are you doing your bare shaft tuning?  If the bare shafts are in the group with fletched but consistently showing a strong nock left condition, I would back up 5-10 yards and give it a try.  I get good results at around 25 yards or so.  If it is weak moving back will tell you.  I don't start getting any solid and meaningful bare shaft tuning results until I'm back at least 20 yards, although I start closer to make sure I'm close.  It's amazing how far a bare shaft will stray from it's intended path if it's not close to correct for the bow.

I'm not an expert on non-center cut longbows, but a 31" .400 arrow with a 200 grain point out of a 61# bow sounds a bit weak to me.  But then I know that you need a weaker arrow if the bow is not cut to center.

Bottom line is bare shaft tuning will tell you what you need.  Try moving back if you can.  If bare and fletched shafts group together at 25 yards you should have great arrow flight with fletched shafts and should be able to swap out the field point with a similar weight broadhead and be set.

[Easykeeper]

At what distance are you doing your bare shaft tuning?  If the bare shafts are in the group with fletched but consistently showing a strong nock left condition, I would back up 5-10 yards and give it a try.  I get good results at around 25 yards or so.  If it is weak moving back will tell you.  I don't start getting any solid and meaningful bare shaft tuning results until I'm back at least 20 yards, although I start closer to make sure I'm close.  It's amazing how far a bare shaft will stray from it's intended path if it's not close to correct for the bow.

I'm not an expert on non-center cut longbows, but a 31" .400 arrow with a 200 grain point out of a 61# bow sounds a bit weak to me.  But then I know that you need a weaker arrow if the bow is not cut to center.

Bottom line is bare shaft tuning will tell you what you need.  Try moving back if you can.  If bare and fletched shafts group together at 25 yards you should have great arrow flight with fletched shafts and should be able to swap out the field point with a similar weight broadhead and be set.

[olddogrib]

Well, I guess that about settles it, LOL!  This is why a scary percentage of old trad archers end up in asylums muttering to themselves about stiff, weak, paradox, pair-a-ducks, etc.

[Bullfrog 1]

I am shooting it close to 30 yards.  Bill

[solobowhunter]

Originally posted by olddogrib:
Well, I guess that about settles it, LOL!  This is why a scary percentage of old trad archers end up in asylums muttering to themselves about stiff, weak, paradox, pair-a-ducks, etc.

Classic!