HELP - Wood Arrows and Tight Groups

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

I'm fairly new to shooting wood arrows.  I'm used to carbon arrows and tight groups, and obviously wood is not going to be as consistent. I've spined my arrows into groups that are within 2#'s and that seems to help, but I still get the occasional flyer. I've noticed a few things, and listed below.  Please feel free to comment and correct on my list and add any tips to help get better wood arrow flight and tight groups.

1. Is it just me, or does a wood arrow need to be shot a bunch of times before it flies consistent? Is there a "breaking in" period?
2. LARGE fletchings seem to get the arrow out of paradox faster, I've fletched some with Banana feathers I cut that are 5 1/2" long. My carbon arrows don't seem to be as finicky.
3. Wood arrows dont seem as forgiving as carbon. If my form isn't perfect the arrow will be considerably off target.

I will be shooting competitive 3D in a longbow division with wood arrows, so any tips, assistance, etc from all of the hardcore wood arrow trad gangers is much appreciated!

[S.C. Hunter]

My wood arrows seem to shoot every bit as good if not better than my carbons. I have not shot carbons and woodies on the same day to often, but I shot the same 3D course and some of my best days were when I was shooting wood. There is one place that I shoot and I will almost always use my carbons because a miss there usually is stopped by rocks and boulders. For some reason breaking a carbon doesn't hurt as much as breaking a wooden arrow.
  :D    :D

[Benjy]

Mark your arrows so you can tell if it's the same arrow that's flying off target.

If they are "finicky" then you may be on the edge of the spine group. Try a heavier or lighter point to see what happens.

[Hermon]

In regards to #1, I feel they fly better when new.  I think that if they get beat around some that they don't fly as well.  YMMV

Here is some results of my shooting the last week.  One arrow was done outside at 20 yards, one was in the basement at 14 yards.
 

This arrow was shot from one of my bows and next arrow (shot from a different bow) split this one.  
 

Now this was an exceptional week for me, but I think that it shows that wood arrows can be as consistent as any shaft material.

[Hermon]

And here are 3 each of two different spine arrows from the same bow.  Now, I have been shooting better than normal for me lately, but again this just shows that wood is good.

 

[Dendy Cromer]

This is a good thread... interested what others have to say. As for me:
1) no break in period. As a matter of fact, i think that you could shoot the spine out of a wood arrow, if you shoot it enough times.
2)larger fletches help, but are generally louder and a tad slower- properly spined woodies do not need giant fletching.
3) I'm not sure- in my xperience, wood is pretty dang forgiving.
 Wooden arrows fly just as good as anything else, but you've gotta spend a lot more time with them to reach that end. Just like a champion retriever is nothing but a fleabag if you don't spend time with it.
 in the beginning, spine, weigh, and bareshaft EVERY shaft. get them close by bareshafting, then fletch and shoot. Mark the ones that don't fly well and use them for stumping or something. Keep shooting and cull the flyers until you have a group of arrows that you have the utmost confidence in... those are the ones that you can rely on.

[Pack]

If anything wood seems to be more forgiving to me.  I sometimes mix different spines in my quiver as long as they are stiff enough, they will fly better than I can shoot them.  

I am often amazed if I go to check the straightness of my stumpers, and the one I couldn't miss with is sometimes the least straight of the bunch.  

It may all just speak to my shooting, but I find wood the most forgiving of the shaft materials.  

Pack

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

I don't doubt that wood can fly true, just that there's a process to get them flying that way. For example even though I spined them within 2 pounds and matched them, one shaft flies high and left. But that is to be expected, I suppose, since every wood shaft is not physically the same like carbon.

You have not given us any specs, my experience with shooters that tell me that their wood arrows won't group comes almost always the same. 1. The arrows are all straight. 2.They seem to fly straight. 3.They are all close to the same weight. 4.They are spined stiff to complement their extra length. 5.They are almost always too stiff and  having an extra amount of wood out in front adds an unknown variable. Then I find some arrows that are nearly net length and closer to a minimum spine for the set-up and bingo they get better groups. Many people have a softer release than they think and quite often the release point is shorter than they think. Sometimes even Howard Hill let a considerable amount of shaft squeak out before the string left his fingers. Check out the DVDs in slow motion and you will see it. If the arrow is too stiff it will shove off the bow differently with every shot, but still look to fly pretty good. Some bows like arrows over spine and some like under spine, only trying a variety and closing up the variables will give one a real answer.

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

This arrow was shot from one of my bows and next arrow (shot from a different bow) split this one.  
 

Yea, I'm learning to not shoot my wooden arrows all at the same spot, LOL! Don't want to bust my best shooting shafts!

[S.C. Hunter]

If you are talking about the consistency from shaft to shaft then yes carbon is going to have the edge. If you are having a issue with the one shaft I would take it out and use it for stump shooting. Wish I could help more. I guess so far I have been lucky because most of the woodies I have shot have been a very good match for my bow.

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Originally posted by pavan:
You have not given us any specs, my experience with shooters that tell me that their wood arrows won't group comes almost always the same. 1. The arrows are all straight. 2.They seem to fly straight. 3.They are all close to the same weight. 4.They are spined stiff to complement their extra length. 5.They are almost always too stiff and  having an extra amount of wood out in front adds an unknown variable. Then I find some arrows that are nearly net length and closer to a minimum spine for the set-up and bingo they get better groups. Many people have a softer release than they think and quite often the release point is shorter than they think. Sometimes even Howard Hill let a considerable amount of shaft squeak out before the string left his fingers. Check out the DVDs in slow motion and you will see it. If the arrow is too stiff it will shove off the bow differently with every shot, but still look to fly pretty good. Some bows like arrows over spine and some like under spine, only trying a variety and closing up the variables will give one a real answer.

Pavan,
Interesting.  I'm shooting a 46@27" Longbow, my DL is 27.5".  Surewood Doug Firs 50/55# tapered at nock end, just a hair over 29" from BOP to valley of nock, 145g tip. The groups were not tight but I would say they were centered with the occasional left flier. I'm a right handed shooter. I shoot carbons full length out of the same bow(32" 5575's trad, 225g up front) and get great flight. What do you suggest??

[Dirtybird]

I would almost think those shafts are weak.  Just a thought.

[Wheels2]

I suspect that the problem lies in the arrow diameter and the center shot of the bow.  Because the woods are much larger in diameter than the carbons, they result in a different flex and thus a different spine, for that bow.
The closer the bow is center shot the more forgiving it is on spine.  Just place each on the bow and look down the arrow while keeping the string aligned down the center of the limbs.

I like wood arrows but would prefer them in a 5/16" diameter.  I used to shoot compressed and tapered cedars.  I found them to be my absolute favorites for flight characteristics and durability/weight ratio.

[Flying Dutchman]

First of all, you've got to get used to different shaft material. I had it the other way around: I had to get used to carbon after shooting wood for years.

Wood does not need a break-in period.
Wood is much more forgiving
Wood does not need large fletching; I use 4" shielded, light helical.
Wood is more silent and less nervous.
I prefer 11/32 over 5/16 after some testing.

On my 45 lbs hybrid longbow, very close to center-cut and a 6 strands SBD string, I use 53 lbs +/-1 lbs, 29.5 BOP, and a 100 grains fieldtip. I've shot this set-up for years with great results.

However, wood DOES bend. If an arrow doesn't fly right, it is most of the times bent or crooked. When pulling the arrow out of the target, place your hand as close to the point as you can (preferably against the target) in order not to bent them when pulling out.

Inspect the straightness every time before a shooting session by spinning them on my hand. I put the wobbling ones apart and straighten them.
Here is an easy way for straitening:

  http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000060

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

I should mention that my R/D longbow is center cut and I've been shooting a 14 strand FF string.  And I agree that the shafts are weak, but they do not fly weak that is what is perplexing. And I've found that shooting a slightly weak carbon shaft gives me better flight characteristics. On the wood shafts, however, the occasional flyer will hit left (Stiff).

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Originally posted by Flying Dutchman:

However, wood DOES bend. If an arrow doesn't fly right, it is most of the times bent or crooked. When pulling the arrow out of the target, place your hand as close to the point as you can (preferably against the target) in order not to bent them when pulling out.

Inspect the straightness every time before a shooting session by spinning them on my hand. I put the wobbling ones apart and straighten them.
Here is an easy way for straitening:

   http://tradgang.com/noncgi/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=000060  

Dutch,
You bring up another great point.  How straight is straight?  Obviously a big bend is easy to see and straighten out. But do you guys try to straighten out every little hump until the shaft is as straight as say a carbon shaft? I mean you can drive yourself nuts trying to make a wood shaft perfectly straight.

[Charlie Lamb]

If your draw length is 27.5 and your arrow 29 BOP cut one of those suckers down to 28 and see what happens.

If you are making the arrows yourself make sure your nocks all align with the grain in the same way.

Identify the "fliers" and set them aside, break them or give them away. An inaccurate arrow has no purpose... NONE!

[Tim Finley]

Almost everytime I have a flyer with wood, I check the nock at different angles and will find I have it on slightly crooked, it can make a huge difference....Tim

[Flying Dutchman]

I just spin them on my hand and they must not wobble when they spin.