Another Wood Arrow Tuning Thread

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Everybody has been super helpful on the last 2 threads I started on wood arrows and it has improved my wood arrow tuning immensely. BUT I have a small dilemma that doesn't make sense to me. With A slight bit of bow tuning and working on my shooting form, I'm getting better flight. I matched up 2 sets of 3 arrows each. All shafts are super straight Surewoods Doug Fir 29" BOP, 145 g tip,RW feathers, cock feather out and within 6g of total arrow mass weight. Set 1 has high profile big 5 1/2" banana fletchings and I spined them at 53/54#, set 2 has 5 inch low profile shield feathers spines 52/53#. Aggressive R/D Omega longbow 46@27, 27.5" DL. Here's the perplexing thing: set 1 flies true and like darts, set 2 is tail wag right hits left slightly, and it sounds like the arrows are smacking off the side of the riser when I release. I would think maybe they are flying stiff but the shafts are actually weaker. Or am I getting false stiff because they are hitting the riser?

So basically I'm trying to figure out what's going on with set 2, where the only difference is a pound or 2 of spine, and different feathers. Do the feathers make that big of a difference? Or is my bow that sensitive to spine? I haven't messed with point weight yet, thats the next step. And I may just refletch them to banana's. But before I do that, I wanted to see what the wood arrow shaft TradGang experts think.  Thanks.

[Stinger]

How far from the target are these shots?  It almost sounds like you are close (10 yards or so) and set 2 with the lower profile fletch hasn't had time to bring the arrow out of paradox yet maybe?

[Bjorn]

Your shafts are not tuned to the bow. This shows up more in group 2 because the fletch is smaller; but group one is equally out of tune.  Set 1 'flies great' because the big fletch masks the problem better. Don't treat them as group 1 and 2 they are all the same. Have you bare shafted?

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Shots are 20 yds.  I bareshafted one shaft at 20 yds and honestly it flew so weak I thought it was the wood. Meanwhile the fletched shafts in the one set are dead on. My thoughts are the big fletchings aren't "masking" a problem but instead stiffening the shaft and thereby giving it proper flight. In my experience bareshafring doesn't always seem to be the only way to go, but what do I know, that's why I put this thread out there.

[magnus]

I agree with Bjorn. Sounds like they are too weak and hitting your riser causing a false stiff reaction. Do you have room to shorten them? Yes fletching will add weight and act like they're stiffening the shaft but not that much.

[Stinger]

I withdraw my comment since your shots were at 20 yards and agree with Bjorn and Magnus.

[LittleBen]

I'm on board with bjorn and magnus as well. If it bareshafts weak it is weak.

Big fletching will hide alot of problems until you try and shoot a broadhead and it will be all wild and crazy going through the air.

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Ok. Stupid question. If it's weak but flying well with the big fletching, what happens once I stiffen it up by cutting the shaft or lightening the tip. Could the big fletched shafts suddenly fly too stiff?  

just to remind all I've been a carbon arrow shooter, this is all new to me, and tuning wood shafts has been a new experience. Also i should add that according to Stu Millers dynamic spine calculator the dynamic spine of my carbon shafts is nearly identical to my wood shafts. Thanks.

[magnus]

Every bow arrow shooter combo is different. I would start dropping point weight first as its the easiest to change and see what happens. Don't feel bad about asking questions that's how we Learn. We ALL had to start somewhere. It's worth the effort.    

[Bjorn]

No. A fletched shaft can be off by 15-20# and APPEAR to fly well.

[WESTBROOK]

Also i should add that according to Stu Millers dynamic spine calculator the dynamic spine of my carbon shafts is nearly identical to my wood shafts.

The calculator dont know the difference between carbon and wood, it treats them the same and they aint. You put just about anyones well tuned carbon setup in the calculator and it will show 10-15# weak. Wood is a totaly different game.

You can peel the fletch off a "good flying arrow" and it may hit the bag sideways if its the wrong spine.

As Bjorn & Magnus have said, your arrows are weak spined.

Your feathers arent stiffening the arrow, they're keeping the back from passing the front in this case. When they are tuned right, your bare shaft should impact a couple inches to the weak side of the fletched arrows.

I'd cut an inch off and drop to 125g points.

Eric

[SuperK]

When I shoot wood, it seems to me that it is better to error on the stiff side rather than weak.  This is different from what I found out with carbon.  Different materials have their own "character".  It would be interesting to hear what others think about this also.

[UrbanDeerSlayer]

Originally posted by SuperK:
When I shoot wood, it seems to me that it is better to error on the stiff side rather than weak.  This is different from what I found out with carbon.  Different materials have their own "character".  It would be interesting to hear what others think about this also.

That's interesting. And I agree that Carbons "behave" differently which is why I've been having some difficulty tuning the woods.  Guess the consensus is to stiffen them up, so that's what I'll do and see what happens. Thanks.

[David Yukon]

Keep us posted, I'm learning a lot true your questions and the answers that they generate!
Cheers
David

[Flying Dutchman]

For me, Stu is spot on as wel with carbons as with wood.  But I am shooting low FOC and I heard Stu is getting wrong with EFOC.

I bareshafted my carbons on 20 yards and the results I've found were the same as in Stu's Calculator.

With my woodies I can hit a small balloon on 55 yards. I would say there can't be much wrong with such arra's. Again the results are the same as I found in Stu.

[gringol]

Fletching makes a BIG difference.  As you are discovering.  You can mask a lot of tuning problems with big fletching, but the troubles may come screaming back when you shoot a BH or your fletchings get wet.  

I shot arrows with huge fletchings for years before I bareshafted.  The bareshafts flew down range at about 45deg to the target and shattered on impact.  Those shafts were about 20# weak and you never would have known watching feathered shafts fly.

You didn't specify your draw length or your bow specs, but it sounds like your shafts are still too weak.  I've never had much luck with Stu and woodies.  Too much depends on the shooter, the bow, and the type of arrow wood IMO.