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Author Topic: Tuff Heads on order...  (Read 1364 times)

Offline John Havard

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2013, 11:11:00 AM »
Tom,

I was shooting Dryad ACS RC limbs that pulled 50# @ 30".  Easton Full Metal Jacket arrows with TuffHead 225-grain broadheads and 75-grain steel inserts for a total arrow weight of 725 grains.  Also got a passthrough on a zebra (the only two animals I had time to take during my short hunt).

Offline BUFF

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #21 on: March 20, 2013, 11:26:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by amar911:
Maybe one of these broadhead adapters would work well. I will probably try various makes of them. The adapters from Vantage Archery are the ones I used (and others used too) that regularly bent! Joe buys them, he doesn't produce them, so their lack of strength is definitely not his fault. The ones below have mostly come to market very recently, probably as a result of the poor quality adapters that were available for awhile.

   http://www.abowyer.com/abowyer_adapters.html  
   http://www.tradout.com/stainless-steel-broadhead-adapters-screw-in  
   http://www.kustomkingarchery.com/Steel-Broadhead-Adapters-Screw-In/productinfo/4406  
   http://www.bowproshop.com/broadheads--adapters-premium-steel-broadhead-adapters-75gr-100gr-125gr-sold-separately.html  

Allan
Thanks for the links. I have heard about folks having poor luck with the steel adaptors as well. I was concerned but didnt know where to go to get any better ones

Offline bamboo

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2013, 02:08:00 PM »
use vintage archery's--glue in adapters and a 2"aluminum footing if super tough is what you want--joe sells 200 g adapters and 300g target points--screw in adapters are always going to be the weak link!
Mike

Offline bamboo

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2013, 02:30:00 PM »

 
double alum footing
 
Mike

Offline Blaino

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2013, 02:52:00 PM »
http://vintagearcheryco.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=27


what about doing away witht the screw-in adaptors and useing the glue-in?
"It's not the trophy, but the race. It's not the quarry,
but the chase."

Offline pdk25

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2013, 04:41:00 PM »
I think Joe got his adapters at kustom king, so unless they have changed or I am mistaken, I would look elsewhere if it were me. That being said, they have great customer service and great products    so giving them a call might be a good idea.

Offline bamboo

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2013, 05:45:00 PM »
pat i'm pretty sure joe has his stuff manufactured
I can't find any adapters on the KK page in the weights I bought from vintage---

 http://www.kustomkingarchery.com/Brass-Glue-In-Broadhead-Adapters/productinfo/3425/
Mike

Offline bucksakemmer

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2013, 06:06:00 PM »
My setup is using a titanium adapter that I got from ABower and a footing from Joe.

Offline pdk25

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2013, 06:08:00 PM »
You are right about the brass ones, Mike.  Just not the steel.

Offline robertson

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2013, 10:11:00 AM »
very good topic

up

Offline robertson

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2013, 05:20:00 AM »
I  would like to order some 300 grains tuffheads

but i wait to get more infos about the adapters .

Offline Al Kidner

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2013, 05:21:00 PM »
Pascal, try the titanium ones from Abowyer mate...
"No citizen has the right to be an amateur in the matter of physical training. What a disgrace it is for a man to grow old without ever Seeing the beauty and strength of which his body is capable." Socrates.

Offline vintage archer

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2013, 11:00:00 PM »
From data collected , most of the negative performance of these adapters is with arrows exceeding 700 grains which have encountered heavy bone  as associated with water buffalo and cape buffalo. It is not commonly reported on deer size animals although I personally experienced the problem after hitting a white tail high in the spine area.

This bending problem is also not just isolated to the adapters used in glue on style broadheads .It is also documented with screw in style broadheads in which the screw post is part of the broadhead. This bending in also not just isolated to adapters made from tool steel but also shows up in aluminum and stainless steel adapters.   That brings us to the “Weak Link” which is the screw post its self.

The standard female insert for all arrows aluminum and carbon is a NC 8-32 thread. The standard male thread consist of a threaded section which has a rough diameter of .158  inch  or about  5/32 inch. It  is almost exclusive  in adapter failure to find this 5/32 diameter threaded post bent. There are several suggested solutions to this problem that range from hardened steel, synthetic materials and alloyed steels as material for stronger adapters. All have and will only be methods to strengthen the flimsy 5/32 diameter screw post.

 There are options that skirt around the standard adapter and that is a one piece glue in insert adapter combination. These adapters/insert, (one style )can be seen at
 http://www.vintagearcheryco.com/shop/.   eliminate the post and connection point between arrow and adapter. The strength comes from diameter of the insert .The diameter is only restricted by the arrow size. For example a 5/16  carbon arrow has approximately a .249 inch inside diameter and a 9/32 arrow has an approximate ID of .204 dia. At this date for all big game hunts and until the bending of screw in adapters can be completely solved this is the safest method to potentially eliminate the “weak link”.

Titanium is a strong alloy and seems to be everyone’s panacea for the problem. Titanium has superior strength compared to it weight. But most grades do not have much more strength than carbon steel.  If ones objective is to go light but stronger than aluminum than titanium is a good choice.  When shopping for titanium adapters match the grade of the titanium to the game hunted.  Most metal charts will show that grade 5 is superior to all others. It is extremely hard to machine  the  threads in grade 5 and to this date we have not been able to produce a grade 5 adapter that can be produced economically. I am however encouraged as just to day I was put in contact with a machinist that says he can make it.  Our proto type will weigh 75 grains. It is solid in the 5 degree taper and the taper is to the max length at 1 inch.

Grade 5 titanium has a yield strength or tensil strength of 120,000 psi this is about twice the strength of mild tool steel and more than two times the yield strength of lower grade titanium
 http://www.onlinemetals.com/titaniumguide.cfm  

While the adapter/insert combination has had no known failures and is stronger than most other adapters ,or screw on broadheads,  it is not as handy as a screw in adapter. However, an archer can solve the problem match  with different insert weights and adapter weights so the can replicate the weight of a adapter/insert.  Use the screw in set up for practice and the adapter/insert for their hunting arrow. Titanium in the right grade may be a decent alternative.
Joe Furlong

Offline vintage archer

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2013, 11:42:00 PM »
It is possible that lower grade titanium adapters are strong enough to with stand bending. I have not done any testing nor have I had any reports of titanium adapters of any grade bending. My opinion is just based on steel spec sheets. If there is a superior grade however that is the one I want   :)
Joe Furlong

Offline bamboo

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #34 on: March 28, 2013, 09:11:00 AM »
this set up has worked good so far--its got a glue in adapter with a footing-then a shorter footing [double foot?]to fill the space
 
Mike

Offline Kris

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #35 on: March 28, 2013, 05:41:00 PM »
Love this stuff...good discussion!  

Not sure if it was mentioned in these 3 pages but I'm of the opinion that "longer" BH's impart a greater lateral force on their inserts.  The moment of force is greater thereby leveraging the BH adaptor and causing it to bend (the weak link).  In particular, I noticed this when shooting Grizzly BH’s on cedar shafts, more times than not, they broke cleanly, immediately behind the back of the ferrule.  

Just a theory, any others observe this or feel this way?

Kris

Offline ozy clint

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #36 on: March 28, 2013, 09:38:00 PM »
that is exactly right kris.

for animals in the buffalo sized class screw in adapters are definately the weakest link in the chain.
glue in/on adapters are the go BUT how do you do it if you use skinny axis shafts like i do? the shank would be the same diameter as the steel screw in adapter hence offering no strength gains.

this is how i'm going to go about it.
for my next buff arrows i want to use the tuffhead on axis shafts. i'm going to make my own custom BH adapters on a lathe. they will have an 11/32" 5 degree taper for the BH to glue onto as normal then it will step down to the inside diameter of a 2020 aluminium shaft since that is what the footings are made from. then they will step down to the inside diameter of the axis shafts. so the adapter gets glued into the shaft then the footing gets glued over the whole lot to the back of the BH. the length of the steps have yet to be determined as this will affect the weight of the adapter and i'm not sure what weight i want yet.

i can make the adapter any weight i want so i'll have a 900gr+ arrow with all the weight at the front.
Thick fog slowly lifts
Jagged peaks and hairy beast
Food for soul and body.

Border black douglas recurve 70# and 58# HEX6 BB2 limbs

Offline bamboo

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #37 on: March 28, 2013, 09:45:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Kris:
Love this stuff...good discussion!  

Not sure if it was mentioned in these 3 pages but I'm of the opinion that "longer" BH's impart a greater lateral force on their inserts.  The moment of force is greater thereby leveraging the BH adaptor and causing it to bend (the weak link).  In particular, I noticed this when shooting Grizzly BH’s on cedar shafts, more times than not, they broke cleanly, immediately behind the back of the ferrule.  

Just a theory, any others observe this or feel this way?

Kris
kris in my opinion those forces are
another reason for a sturdy footing
and careful tuning to reduce friction while penetrating--and probably a case for higher FOC's which in my opinion reduces the lateral forces imparted by shaft flex on impact
Mike

Offline vintage archer

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #38 on: March 28, 2013, 11:01:00 PM »
BAMBOO / Mike
Great looking set up  with the footings and solid "two in one" adapter/insert and the TuffHead You have done everything  one can do to eliminate problems.  

Thanks for your input and pictures
Joe Furlong

Offline robertson

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Re: Tuff Heads on order...
« Reply #39 on: March 29, 2013, 07:07:00 AM »
Quote
Originally posted by Al Kidner:
Pascal, try the titanium ones from Abowyer mate...
Hello

Thank you for the info   :thumbsup:    :thumbsup:

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