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Author Topic: The ghost doe.  (Read 661 times)

Offline Altiman94

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2013, 10:08:00 PM »
That's really awesome!  I have never seen an albino deer in the wild, thanks for sharing.
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Offline gregg dudley

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2013, 11:06:00 PM »
Considering the fact that there were literally hundreds of Native American tribes with dozens of legends and traditions each I am sure that some had a taboo on killing white buffalo and other white animals.  However, I doubt that there was wholesale protection unilaterally awarded to any creature.  I have tried to research it and my search winds down rabbit hole after rabbit hole.  It appears that most of the perceived protective spirituality associated with white or albino animals is a relatively new idea.  Earlier concepts appear to have been more of a covetous nature, as in shoot, skin, possess, and thereby receive the medicine/power.

Teddy Roosevelt is said to have offered $5,000 for the skin of a white buffalo that had a treaty signed on the back of it.  The buffalo was killed by the Cheyenne in 1833.

Sacred does NOT mean protected.  There are multiple Native American legends associated with white deer that refer to the animals as sacred and then go on to indicate that they were hunted.  A Chickasaw legend that I read recently refers to a young warrior that never returned from a quest to kill a white deer for his bride-to-be.  In turn the woman never married.  According to the legend the white deer was thereafter "sacred" and a wedding dress made of white deer hide the ultimate symbol of eternal love.

For me personally, as a hunter, I struggle with the notion of attaching any protective aura to wild game animals based simply on appearance.  To me, all game animals are beautiful. It seems a contradiction to single one out for protection based on some near anthropomorphic idealism.  After all, isn't that what anti-hunters do with all game?

What I think happens more often than not is that a white deer shows up in somebody's back 40 and because it is more easily identifiable than the rest of the herd it earns a name and becomes something of a "pet".  After that it becomes something that they scan the treeline looking for every time they cross from the barn to the house.  After a few encounters they have some sense of connection to it and naturally become reluctant to kill it.  I can buy that and would probably feel the same way.

My dad used to hunt a stand that he would see countless does and fawns from on a daily basis.  He had them all named.  When it came time for doe-days he was worthless as a manager.  If there had been a white one in the lot we might have had a fist fight!  

    :campfire:          
 :archer2:

Very cool pictures, by the way!
MOLON LABE

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Offline gregg dudley

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2013, 11:20:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bud B.:
I'd pass...but around here she'd have been killed when she was a fawn, most likely. Like the white buffalo I think they're a specialty in nature and only nature should take her/them (albinos)

Now white hares and ptarmigan? Dead right there!!
Definitely NOT picking a fight, but I like good conversation.  This sentiment always leaves me scratching my head.  As hunters we embrace our rightful place at the top of the food chain.  Are we not then an integral part of nature?     ;)
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Offline b.glass

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #23 on: March 22, 2013, 04:28:00 PM »
I beleive it was the Wensels that said they are not suppose to be white. To take them out of the herd would be the right thing to do. I agree, however, I don't know that I could do it.

I wasn't going to post this but gregg gave me the guts!   ;)
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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #24 on: March 22, 2013, 05:13:00 PM »
Awesome!

Bisch

Offline T-Bowhunter

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2013, 07:31:00 PM »
Thanks for posting!
William

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Online 4dogs

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #26 on: March 22, 2013, 08:02:00 PM »
My reasons for not killing an animal like this (a spirit one) are more cultural. By modern standards the "right" thing to do would be to take it out of the gene pool. My beliefs don't make sense to a lot of people and that's ok but I also expect people to respect them as I do theirs. I have quite a few things I do and don't do, believe and don't...some would really raise some eyebrows with present day thinking but they are part of my upbringing and go back a long ways and I continue them out of truly believing and respect for my ancestors....end of my rant, thanks
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Offline Chromebuck

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2013, 08:17:00 PM »
Great post Gregg.  As they say here "one sword sharpens the other".

I never understood why some states make the harvest of albino or a piebald illegal.  Michigan being one of them if memory serves me still.

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Offline Bud B.

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2013, 08:58:00 PM »
Quote
Originally posted by Bud B.:
 
Quote
Originally posted by jsweka:
Maybe I'm a jerk, ...
Nope...just making different choices. Nut'n wrong with that. [/b]
I was supporting jsweka's decision to shoot an albino. I would not do it for the personal reasons I have.

 
Quote
Originally posted by gregg dudley:
 
Quote
Originally posted by Bud B.:
I'd pass...but around here she'd have been killed when she was a fawn, most likely. Like the white buffalo I think they're a specialty in nature and only nature should take her/them (albinos)

Now white hares and ptarmigan? Dead right there!!
Definitely NOT picking a fight, but I like good conversation.  This sentiment always leaves me scratching my head.  As hunters we embrace our rightful place at the top of the food chain.  Are we not then an integral part of nature?      ;)  [/b]
It's basically just a personal choice. I hunt mainly for the connection WITH nature, not as a killer, but, if taking game is the measure of a successful hunt then killing is necessary. I measure a successful hunt in just being out there with the option to do it or not to. For me it's not for survival. But hunting does mean you have to accept the fact that you are a killer of something. I think what separates us from the laws of nature is we now, for the most of us, have a choice.

It's kinda like not shooting a button buck or a doe accompanied by a spotted fawn. It's plainly and simply a personal choice. Not much conversation in that. I don't scratch my head or begrudge anyone for making opposing choices in hunting or alot of other things.


White hares and white ptarmigan are not rare. I've shot my share of them when I lived in Alaska.

 http://video.foxnews.com/v/1714106697001/rare-white-buffalo-born-on-farm-in-connecticut/
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Offline Deeter

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2013, 09:33:00 PM »
Its amazing what you come across in the woods.
Ben

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“When a hunter is in a tree stand with high moral values and with the proper hunting ethics and richer for the experience, that the hunter is 20 feet closer to God.”
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Offline adeeden

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2013, 11:18:00 PM »
I agree it's 100% a personal choice. Huntings a personal thing to make Taking a critters life is serious business sometimes my mind says that's the one, but sometimes it says that's not the one to!

Anyway this ones safe from me I enjoy keeping tabs on her. I'm pulling for her to make it and can't wait to see if she fawns this year. A lot of the fawns get bred there first year around here.
"I would rather be lucky then good, any day!"

Offline gregg dudley

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2013, 11:34:00 PM »
Bud,  as a hunter I know that you don't have the disconnect with nature that many non-hunters do.  Personal choice is a legitimate claim and logic need not be a part of it.  Our inconsistencies are often what make us interesting.  I don't begrudge you yours and hopefully you won't begrudge me mine.  But feel free to scratch your head at will.    ;)
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Offline Bud B.

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #32 on: March 23, 2013, 08:09:00 AM »
If you could get a pic of her with a fawn that would be one awesome picture Dennis. Hopefully you'll be able to post one soon.
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Offline Devo

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2013, 11:33:00 AM »
Wow very fun to see this photos. Can't say I've ever seen any albino in the wild. It seems like whitetail are more prone to albinism than mule deer or other deer species (moose, elk). Anybody notice the same thing or have an idea why this may be the case? I here there are a lot of whitetail back east! Maybe the odds are just higher in a bigger population.

Regardless, cool pics! Thanks for sharing.

Offline monsterbuck

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Re: The ghost doe.
« Reply #34 on: March 23, 2013, 11:52:00 AM »
That's neat! Thanks for sharing. God bless.
John 3:16  Whosoever Will

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