porpoising arrows & adjusting nock point

[Wolfshead]

I have just recently broke 3 bareshaft arrows while I as trying to adjust my nock point on my
bow.
It is a 45#@27 bamabow hunter longbow. nock point started 1/2 inch above the shelf and the arrows were hitting tail high and a little left. Arrow spine is 55-60#. shooting full length arrows from about 13 yds in my basement. Planning on cutting them down to around 29.5 inches or so.
I shoot 3 finger under, index to the corner of my mouth,usually fletch to my nose but no fletch when bareshafting...
As I adjusted (lowered) the nock point it seemed that the tail of the arrow was getting higher?? I ended up breaking all 3 as they hit the target and with the arrow whipping upwards and breaking two clean and one a greenstick fracture.
Any help, thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated!    

[grouseshooter002]

This is just my two pennies so I would hope that others will chime in. First, we need to know your draw length and since I'm not familiar with the bamabow I need to know if the bow is center cut or how far from center it is cut? I have a feeling that the shafts are too stiff to begin with and as you lower the nock point they are bouncing off the shelf. I would set the nock point at 9/16" to begin with and make sure that the target is level. Raising or lowering the nock will change where the shaft strikes be it high or low, but when it is too low you are causing other problems. Good luck with this challenge.

Regards,
Grouse

[Bud B.]

Bareshafting wood is risky, for me anyways.

Cutting one down that low in length might require a very heavy point. You may want to go ahead and cut one down to where you want, heavy point it, fletch it, and go from there. If flight is  good, strip the feathers and fine tune. Don't forget brace adjustments, too.

My answer was getting a fletched test kit from magnus at Turkey Flight Traditional, or, any other sponsor here on TG.


Good luck.

[BDann]

When I switched to 3 under, I had to raise my nocking point quite a bit.  Mine is 3/4" above the shelf, and you should really try using two nocking points.  Your string can also become worn and the nock will slide down during the shot and contribute to the erratic flight.

[Bjorn]

Bareshafting can be frustrating. Moving nock down past where it needs to be will cause the nock end of the arrow to do bad things like nock up.  That full length shaft would also be 'weak'. Get the nock positioned properly-around 1/2 in above for split and 3/4 for 3 under approx. If you draw 27 you can also start cutting the shaft a little at a time until you get straight flight but 13 yards will be too tight. Let us know how you are making out.

[Ric O'Shay]

The majority of the time a nock set too low will give the same result a a nock that it too high. That's because the arrow nock is hitting the shelf and kicking the arrow up which results in a nock high on the target. As the others have said, start at least 1/2 inch above and go up from there. Specially with three under.

[Bowwild]

LBs are a mysterious animals to me.

I find nock point location the easiest thing to tune with my curves and paper-tuning rig. I almost always end up around 5/8" above zero. I shoot 3 under.

[Wolfshead]

Thank you all for your input!      
My draw length is 27 inches and I am shooting wood (thought I had all the info figures I would leave something out)
I will try moving the nock up and see how that goes  I will let you all know how it works out
Thanks again

Doug

[macbow]

Bare shafting with wood can be,frustrating.
I used to break a lot of shafts.
The main reason was my form was terrible and,with out good form bare shafting is nearly impossible.

So I'm saying make sure your form is good with each shot.
Agree you probably need higher nock point.

[will_hunt]

No one has mentioned brace height. I have a 56" longbow and notice that I need to tinker with brace height from time to time.

[east_tx_pineknot]

I haven't seen this mentioned yet, so I will chime in.  If you don't have a nocking point under the arrow also, then you really need to tie one.  You need a nocking point above and below the arrow, because upon release the arrow will slide down the string a little bit and bounce off the shelf giving you tail high impacts.  Just leave about 1/16" gap between arrow and bottom nocking point so it wont pinch the arrow nock at full draw.  Hope this helps.

[east_tx_pineknot]

I now see above that BDann already mentioned two nocking points, sorry!

[Tater John]

Bare shafting wood was frustrating to say the least for me and after breaking to darn many shafts I stopped that crazy idea. If I'm turning woods I shoot the arrows full fletched comparing groups, field points to broadheads and live with it.
Rusty

[threeunder]

1/2" is way low for 3-under.   Start at 1/2" and move your nocking point up until the tail end of the arrow stops kicking up from shelf contact.  That point for me is 3/4" on all my bows.

[SS Snuffer]

Watch how the arrow flys not how it hit the target. Sounds like your nock is to high. If your arrow flys tail high move the nock down.

[onewhohasfun]

I think it is best to start with a "too high" nocking point and then work your way down. This should eliminate a false "too high" reading by kicking up off the shelf.

Find the best height with a fletched shaft first, then go back to bare shaft to fine tune.

My setups all show nock high, bare shaft.

You may consider an elevated rest. Many guys on here use them.

[Wolfshead]

Well Gentleman,
I moved my nock point to 3/4 and shooting fletched shafts they no longer fly tail up!              
I also noticed that it is quieter than before as well.. By that I mean that before there was a sort of slapping noise and then the tail end would be up as the arrow went down range. (Probably should have mentioned that before as we'll, Sorry guys)
That leads me to believe that the nock was slapping the shelf making the thwacking sound and bouncing the nock end of the arrow up.
I also shot three arrows, two full length and one cut to 29.5 bop.
The 29.5 bop arrow shot noticeably better like a dart!  
So I guess I will be cutting the rest down to 29.5 bop.

I would like to thank everyone so much for the help! I am very new to this and I truly appreciate all the help and advice from everyone. This is such a learning experience and every little thing is a clue to something else. Just need to put the clues together better....
This is such a great site, the knowledge and the willingness to share that knowledge is outstanding!

Thank you!!!!

Doug

[Bud B.]

Darts are good!!

 

[toddster]

My .2cents, I have tried bareshaft for longtime with frustration.  Then after talking with an older (wiser) guy.  I just shot and adjusted nock point with feather's.  Then after hundred arrows getting the string broke in and readjusting nock point and brace height.  I found after the string is broke in, then bareshaft tune get better results.  Then after doing this for a while, I got a bow and did above without bareshaft tuning, and had just as good results.  Keep in mind, I am aware of tuning my equipment to the best possible and matching my woodies to it.  I shoot longbow and strongly believe recurve's get more benefit from barshaft.  The master (howard hill), would shoot adjust brace and nock till it shot and sounded right and good enough.  Playing around with tackle is great and love it.  But, keeping the passion and having fun is the primary concern.  I am a bowhunter, so to me as long as I can hit a soda can at 20 yards good for deer, turkey, squirell and fish,  but I am easy.

[Wolfshead]

Originally posted by toddster:
My .2cents, I have tried bareshaft for longtime with frustration.  Then after talking with an older (wiser) guy.  I just shot and adjusted nock point with feather's.  Then after hundred arrows getting the string broke in and readjusting nock point and brace height.  I found after the string is broke in, then bareshaft tune get better results.  Then after doing this for a while, I got a bow and did above without bareshaft tuning, and had just as good results.  Keep in mind, I am aware of tuning my equipment to the best possible and matching my woodies to it.  I shoot longbow and strongly believe recurve's get more benefit from barshaft.  The master (howard hill), would shoot adjust brace and nock till it shot and sounded right and good enough.  Playing around with tackle is great and love it.  But, keeping the passion and having fun is the primary concern.  I am a bowhunter, so to me as long as I can hit a soda can at 20 yards good for deer, turkey, squirell and fish,  but I am easy.

It seems I heard someone said that "you don't hunt with bare shafts, you hunt with fletched arrows. So why tune bare shaft? Tune fletched arrows" (something like that...)
Part of the fun of traditional is tuning, adjusting and making your own equipment. I have made my own quiver, arrows, arm guard, etc...
Hopefully I'll get to the point that I am hitting soda cans at 20 yards too. Soon!