Ideal characteristics of a backcountry bow

[bearsfeet]

Light and one I shoot good    

[Huh]

Great input, thanks.  

One thing that might be interesting to address is how you strike (or not) the compromise between performance and forgiveness.

[Daz]

Performance?
Performance is getting a 10gpp arrow with a razor sharp broadhead where it's gotta go. Doesn't matter 'how fast', or 'what KE' it's getting.

Doing this when dog tired but amped on adrenaline with too little sleep and not enough food six days into a hunt five miles from the trailhead is not a function of the bow.

On a side note: fifteen hundred bucks for the Wolfer? Wow. That made me pause and think of the better boots, tent and sleeping bag that could be had with the money NOT spent on it.

[Stumpkiller]

Interesting.  For a "backcountry" bow I'd take a slim 58" one-piece recurve for light mass weight (30 oz +/-) with still acceptable draw (I draw a relatively long 29-3/4").  Probably a bow quiver as I'd be wearing a backpack.

[Dan Adair]

Ahhh.

One of my favorite subjects ever of all time, and why I don't hunt a compound anymore.  For me, and the hunting I do, it doesn't get any better than a 3 piece recurve.  In my younger years, when my family had ponies and I didn't work 50-60 hour weeks right up until bow season kicks off (nor did I have a mortgage or ex wife, or piles of bills) I didn't think twice about grabbing my compound, throwing a saddle on Whiskey, and grabbing a pack horse.  I got really good at fixing broke parts on a wheelie for a few years there.  Well, as happens with stock, they got old and lamed up, but I never lost that desire for the quiet and solitude that backcountry the size of The Bob can bring to wanderers soul like mine.

For me, the next logical step was to get into backpacking.  By this point in my life, I'd long since given up on compounds and gadgetry.  In fact, it was the explosion of "bowhunters" buying their way in with compounds that made me continue to find ways to get away from the crowds.  The way I see it, genuine backcountry bowhunting is an extremely low odds, high effort endeavor.  Which is great, because it should keep the penis measurers away from the best way to spend weekends in September and October.

Last fall.  The Bob.  Brad was there too.
 
 

My Silvertip came to me, used and abused, by a close friend and supervisor at the mill I work at.  That bow has quite a history between us two, and has seen a lot of hard miles.  I wish I could say it's killed a pile of game.  I'm working on it  :D  

One of the best advantages of a 3 piece takedown, the way I see it, is the ability to put on a set of lighter limbs to shoot the part of the year that's not hunting season.  Fletch them the same and play with weights until both sets of limbs send both arrows through the chronograph the same FPS.  The reason is that your brain doesn't have to learn two different trajectories.  I keep my "girl limbs" in the truck with a half dozen arrows just in case I bust a limb (which hasn't happened in the 8 years I've been hunting my Silvertip)  Other than that, I keep a spare string in the pack that's been "shot in" and I mark my brace height with a sharpie on all the arrows in my quiver.  Keeping a recurve running in the backcountry is as simple as it gets, and usually pretty far down my list of crap to worry about.

[Dan Adair]

Originally posted by Huh:
Great input, thanks.  

One thing that might be interesting to address is how you strike (or not) the compromise between performance and forgiveness.

Here's how I do it....

Buy a bow from Dave Windauer or Dick and Yote Robertson.  I'm sure there's more bowyers that are die hard backcountry enthusiasts.  But those are just the 3 that I know.

[damascusdave]

Originally posted by Dan Adair:
 

Originally posted by Huh:
Great input, thanks.  

One thing that might be interesting to address is how you strike (or not) the compromise between performance and forgiveness.

Here's how I do it....

Buy a bow from Dave Windauer or Dick and Yote Robertson.  I'm sure there's more bowyers that are die hard backcountry enthusiasts.  But those are just the 3 that I know. [/b]

A while back I got the idea to buy some bows made by Montana bowyers...the first one I bought was a 62 inch longbow made by Dave and the second one I bought was a 60 inch Fatal Styk made by Dick and Yote...nothing about either of those bows would lead me to disagree with you in the least...they encompass pretty much all the attributes referred to in this thread

DDave

DDave

[Huh]

Daz can you clarify your statement.  I read it literally as bow designs are all created equal, such that the bow doesn't matter.  However I think the sentiment is more along the lines of: speed and all that other stuff is not going to help when you when taking shots in the real world.  

I agree with the latter while the former has not been my experience at all.  The bow can matter a bunch if it gains performance in a way that is critical of your form.

[Sixby]

I don't have to compromise performance to have forgivness. When the bow is designed right that is not something the bower does. You can actually have it all.

Yes the 56 in bow will handle 29 in with no problem.
The 58 will handle 30 to 31
The 60 , they do not make arrows that long;
This model has one size limb. different risers;
The Talon 11 has three limb sizes.
I do not do a lot of limb size changes but I change the interior design and taper rates for different draw lengths.

Another back country hunt bow would be a two piece longbow. preferable locket socket style for dependability. Still the three piece short D and r or recurve would be best IMHO; I would carry a spare string, spare set of wrenchless bolts. Riser choice would be Aluminum or phenolic for me.

God bless you all, Steve

[ozy clint]

i'm with DAZ

[DarkTimber]

For me its the bow I shoot most accurately and have the most confidence in regardless of length or weight. With the work involved in getting a quality shot at an animal on a backpack hunt I can not imagine the possibility of missing a shot simply because I carried a bow I didn't shoot as well just to shave off a half pound or couple inches in length.

I hunt with a 3 piece takedown recurve but carry my bow already put together 99% of the time.  

This may sound contradictory to my first statement but I also wouldn't even consider carrying an extra set of limbs on a backpack hunt.  To me, one and a half pounds extra on my back is HUGE, especially when I know the likelihood of me using that weight is so slim.  The weight would basically be like carrying an extra sleeping bag...just in case. If I break a limb, well it just wasn't my day and I have a long walk ahead of me, it's a risk I'm willing to take. I pack a spare string and that's it.

[Daz]

Daz can you clarify your statement. I read it literally as bow designs are all created equal, such that the bow doesn't matter. However I think the sentiment is more along the lines of: speed and all that other stuff is not going to help when you when taking shots in the real world.

I agree with the latter while the former has not been my experience at all. The bow can matter a bunch if it gains performance in a way that is critical of your form.

What bow do YOU shoot well? What works for one is not for everyone. That is the only place where design matters.
Sure a certain bow may be critical for YOUR form, but not necessarily someone else's.

I've seen some archers that can out-shoot 90% of the guys on the line with their own bows, regardless of make or style.
I'm not one of those guys. I shoot low-wrist longbows well. Pistol grip recurves just don't cut it for me.

Personally, i would rather shoot a "moderately performing bow" (whatever that is) consistently well, no matter the conditions than shoot the latest "ooh, that's fast, isn't it?" bow well some of the time. But that is a personal choice.

[HornHunter]

very simple

two piece recurve-- no wrenches-bolts-BS to lose

strap on GN quiver--there again No wrenches-bolts-BS to lose

My John McDonald 59 is exactly that, fits inside my pack, string it with out a stringer, shoots exactly where I look everytime

[Sixby]

Daz, Everytime I read a post like yours I think , Why do many people think you have to shoot a slower bow in order to have the quality  and attributes you want? Why not have a fast bow with all those shooting qualitys?

God bless, Steve

[Daz]

I think the 'speed' mentality in a trad bow is kind of funny.
What is 'slow' anyway?

If it was so important, why would Dick Robertson show the self bow he hunts with in his Wolfer video? Why wouldn't he talk about the "so many fps" his bow gets?

He doesn't. Why? Because a lot of us don't care.

BTW, my Harrison DOES do all of that (and more). But is it mandatory?

[Sixby]

Daz:BTW, my Harrison DOES do all of that (and more). But is it mandatory?
As a bowyer it is; I have not had a single customer , ever not ask how fast the bow is; If its important to the customer its important. When a customer believes he is going to get all the attributes of a great bow when he buys he does not want it to be a slow bow. You may plead that it doesn't matter but it does.; It matters even in the self bow community. Some bowyers are absolutely famous for building self bows that will smoke most glass bows. Marc St Louis, Badger Some of those bows are awsome performers.

God bless you all, Steve

[Daz]

Ok, so let's look realistically.
Let's say that the average bow as tested by Blacky Swartz is getting 185 fps.
You mentioned a speed approaching 205 fps. So, for the sake of easy math, a ten percent increase in 'performance'.
What does it give me in terms of terminal gain? Does that give me 10% more penetration? Sure, it flattens trajectory, but at 25yards what does that mean?

How does it translate in real boots on the ground hunting terms?

I can see from a bowyers perspective it is a selling point. It is a yardstick in a crowded field of fine craftsmen that may garner some attention.

But if speed was all there was to it, wouldn't we all just shoot 'one of those' other kinds of 'bows'?

[Elk whisperer]

any bow is fine does not matter

[Huh]

Thanks for clarifying Daz.

Insightful comments Sixby, thanks.

[Dave Paradowski]

I don't do any backpack hunting where I would want to carry my bow in a backpack. But if I did, I think an ILF bow would be a good bow to take. It is compact and no tools are needed to assemble it. Just snap the limbs in, string it up and you're ready to go....Dave