Being checked while stumping

[gringol]

Originally posted by tarponnut:
Finding a warden in Florida would be like the odds of winning the lottery. There are basically 3 assigned to a county. You would probably stand a better chance of being checked by a skunk ape than a game warden here.

Hmmm.  I've been checked twice here in the last 4 yrs.

[John Scifres]

acollins,

It depends on the property but many public lands in Indiana do not allow target shooting.  Checks the property rules if you want to strictly comply.  Target shooting is not allowed on Indiana State Forest property unless you are on a designated target range.

[Roadkill]

we have no stumps!!!!

We shoot sage and the limit on sage is pretty much huge.

Our wardens are reasonable for the most part and do not hassel folks walking in the flats unless they are in a closed area or acting funny.

[Orion]

Had a conversation about this with a game warden in my state last year.  It was turkey season and I had shot a turkey with my bow.  I was at my truck with bow stashed and turkey tagged about 9 a.m. when a warden pulled up to check me.  

Since my brother was still hunting, and would be for the rest of the day, I suggested to the warden what I planned to do -- go looking for morels and do some stump shooting at the same time.  He didn't know what stump shooting was so I had to explain it.  Also explained that I'd leave my broadheads in the truck and just have steel blunts. What would he do if he came upon me while I was stump shooting, I asked.  Probably cite me for hunting turkeys without a valid permit, he said.

Obviously, I didn't carry my bow with me when I went looking for morels.  Have had this conversation with several other wardens since.  Again, most had not heard of stump shooting. ( I explained it and presented them with a copy of our Wisconsin Traditional Archers magazine, which is titled, The Stumpshooter).) Regardless, they said it would probably be officer discretion as to whether to cite for illegal hunting.  My fallback is to say I'm hunting coyotes, which are open year around here. I always have a valid small game hunting license,of course.

Long story short, I still stump shoot, though not during turkey season around here.  Guess I'm willing to take the chance and spend the time and money to defend myself in court if the warden's  interpretation of what I'm doing doesn't match mine.

[pcg]

Been combing through the Massachusetts laws & can't find anything specific. But I suspect game wardens will be sparse during non-hunting season and focusing instead on fishermen.

[Thumper Dunker]

Geez Nazifornia is not as bad as I thought.I just varmit hunt all year.

[MikeS]

You have the right to keep and bear arms and you do NOT need a license to do it.  And, as far as I know, a bow would be considered arms.  As long as you don't have any game dead  in your possession or are not caught actually shooting at something alive, I don't believe there is a thing they can site you for.
Mike

[MikeS]

By the way, a C.O. told me that it is not illegal to carry a firearm in the woods as long as you are not hunting.  The second amendment applies to the woods also.  After all, you have the right to protect yourself from rabid animals as well as rabid humans!
Mike

[gringol]

The gw can cite you for anything at any time.  Even if he's dead wrong you'll have to spend your time and money defending yourself.  Many of their rules aren't meant to hold up in court, but just to make a little $$$ since most folks will never challenge a citation.

[deaddoc4444]

IN   PA your "PRESUMED" to be hunting  if you are on state land  ( especially State Game Land ) if you are there with ANY WEAPON that could kill or wound any animal .   MY property borders St Game lands  and IF I go to do a bit of walking around, I ALWAYS  have my hunting license with me . Almost always something legal open, Coyotes , Ground Hogs etc.   MOST Game officers I have run into  are usually understanding of the concept, but you never know !!

[Bladepeek]

Yeah, you better check the game laws in the state you are in. Michigan, for example, did not allow concealed carry on state land by those with concealed carry licenses until it was challenged in court. Now, you can carry concealed, but can't use it for hunting unless you have a hunting license and there is an open season for the game you are hunting. There is a lot of fine print, such as not carrying a rifle (even a .22LR) or a shotgun with anything but bird shot in the week before deer season opens.

It's fine to rant about 2nd Amendment rights, but it's really easy to run afoul of game laws that have nothing to do with self defense and are becoming more complicated each year.

deaddoc4444's description of PA law is very similar to Michigan's. In Michigan it is illegal to have a weapon on state land "frequented by game animals" other than at approved ranges unless you have a hunting license.

I have a concealed carry license and usually have something in my pocket when out in the woods. Nothing they can say about that now, but I also have a small game license at a minimum and as deaddoc4444 said, there is always something in season here all year round. If I have a bow or a .22 with me, that is what I'm hunting if anyone asks.

[KSdan]

Originally posted by MikeS:
You have the right to keep and bear arms and you do NOT need a license to do it.  And, as far as I know, a bow would be considered arms.  As long as you don't have any game dead  in your possession or are not caught actually shooting at something alive, I don't believe there is a thing they can site you for.
Mike

My point! And further- a bow is not even necessarily a firearm!!  Kids in school/4-H can take archery class in the public school!!

I come from generations of LOs, including many friends in the enforcement/judicial profession and process.  But again, if I am not doing anything illegal -even if given a citation- I will gladly face a judge. I am innocent unless proven guilty.  

For the life of me I can not understand why people will give up freedom for a police state.  LO are here to serve and help keep civility- not jump on a person for a tail light out. . . or a particular arrow in a quiver.

[tarponnut]

I was referring to private lands in my earlier post (about scarcity of wardens in Florida).
I was told by a warden in the Everglades that said he stopped checking fly-fisherman for licenses because it was a waste of his time(they all had them).
The same would likely hold true for trad bowhunters. I'd be willing to bet that most c.o.'s wouldn't have a clue what stump shooting was, most wheel bow shooters probably wouldn't either for that matter.
This is most likely, "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" debate. (but of course, I'm participating)

[kill shot]

Here in michigan if a c.o. stops, just take off running.

[Bladepeek]

KSdan, I also come from a family of LEOs and was myself a Detroit PD officer for a few years before getting drafted into the Army. I also teach a concealed carry class and have for years. Each class I get someone who says something to the effect "Someone tries to steal something from my house, he's dead". For those people who want to believe they can get away with it, knock yourself out. For the rest, I say "read the law and save yourself a LOT of money". Michigan law specifically states, in spite of the castle doctrine addition, that lethal force can only be used to protect persons; not property. The game laws are also very specific about what you can carry afield, when and how. And a bow is a legal hunting weapon (a spear is not in MI). If someone wants to waste his money trying to prove a point in court, that's his option. I'd rather donate it to a good charity. It's so much easier and cheaper to get a small game license, which I will buy anyway and enjoy my stumping and the ability to legally take a varmint if the opportunity presents itself. Just my way of doing things. You have yours. We both enjoy bows, stumping and bowhunting. I just think my way will be cheaper and less stressful for me in the long run. I'm not even going to comment on kill shot's reply.

[Converml]

Originally posted by Bladepeek:
KSdan, I also come from a family of LEOs and was myself a Detroit PD officer for a few years before getting drafted into the Army. I also teach a concealed carry class and have for years. Each class I get someone who says something to the effect "Someone tries to steal something from my house, he's dead". For those people who want to believe they can get away with it, knock yourself out. For the rest, I say "read the law and save yourself a LOT of money". Michigan law specifically states, in spite of the castle doctrine addition, that lethal force can only be used to protect persons; not property. The game laws are also very specific about what you can carry afield, when and how. And a bow is a legal hunting weapon (a spear is not in MI). If someone wants to waste his money trying to prove a point in court, that's his option. I'd rather donate it to a good charity. It's so much easier and cheaper to get a small game license, which I will buy anyway and enjoy my stumping and the ability to legally take a varmint if the opportunity presents itself. Just my way of doing things. You have yours. We both enjoy bows, stumping and bowhunting. I just think my way will be cheaper and less stressful for me in the long run. I'm not even going to comment on kill shot's reply.

[LittleBen]

I remember from living in NY, we would always be "squirrel hunting" for pine (red) squirrels because theres absolutely no target shooting on most of the state land.

Since the CO's can't get close enough to you undetected to tell if you're shooting at chipmunks/squirrels/bumblebees etc. they can't do much if you're stumping but you better have a small game license.

Lastly, not to stir up trouble but someone suggested CO's don't need warrants. Thats simply not true. The fourth amendment provides protection from unwarrented searches. Yes, some exceptions exist, but they would not apply to CO's differntly than other officers. Although I would be interested if there is actual evidence to the contrary (article or other source not generalized experience)

[arrowlauncherdj]

Thats funny Bladepeek, bc in Alabama if a person enters your home, they are assumed to do you harm, so lethal force is legal.  I was also once told by a local sheriff deputy that if they run through your yard and cross into your neighbors yard, you can also assume they are threatening your neighbor... read into that what you will.  

As far as stump shooting, try to find some private land if you can bc if it is public ground a whole new set of rules apply.  They can really make up whatever rule they want to.

Dave

[LittleBen]

Dave, it's pretty wild how much the laws regarding the use of force differ from state to state. In some states it's only legal to use lethal force to prevent the use of lethal force aginst you, your family, or bi-standards. Basically means only the criminal can ever escalate ... then you have places that let you shoot a guy in the back if he's on your front lawn ...

[Bladepeek]

I don't presume to know AL law. I do know that in MI, it is a "rebuttable presumption" that if someone breaks into your home they intend to do you harm. All that means is that the burden of proof is now on the prosecutor instead of the defense attorney. It still all comes down to the defense of self or another. If a "reasonable person" would have felt in danger of death or serious bodily harm under the circumstances, then it is self defense. If the prosecutor can show that a reasonable person would not have felt in danger, then you don't pass GO, you don't collect $200 - you go directly to jail.

It's too bad we don't have a self defense forum. This would be interesting to pursue. Since it is wandering from the initial post, and, as I've been told befre, has nothing to do with trad bowhunting, I'm outta here.

Ron