Advantage of Flemish twist string over Endless Loop and vice versa?

[threeunder]

Okay guys, I've always used Flemish twist strings.  What am I missing in an Endless Loop string?  What am I not missing?

[David Mitchell]

Well, Mike Fedora once said to me "You never see an olympic shooter shooting a flemish string, do you?"  He is convinced that endless loop strings are more accurate and that the people who are after maximum accuracy shoot them for that reason. Personally I can't shoot well enough to tell a difference.  I like flemish strings because there are twice as many strands going around the limb tip nock.  An endless loop divides the string around the nock so to my thinking the flemish string is twice as strong around the nock. Just my thoughts on it.  

[LBR]

Mike Fedora once said to me "You never see an olympic shooter shooting a flemish string, do you?"  

I'd have had to reply "No, but I've never seen an Olympic shooter competeing with a Fedora bow either."

In his warranty he had (has?)a statement about flemish strings being less accurate, and possibly dangerous.  I e-mailed him asking what this was based on, no answer.  Saw some other crazy claims about strings by a different guy associated with different bow, couldn't get any answers there either. And the infamous "the flemish string (I) included with your bow caused the limbs to twist"--that was by far the most hilarious statement I've seen.

Endless strings are easier to reproduce one to the next, whether it's the same maker or a different one.  Flemish have a lot more of the personality of the maker in them.  Endless may add a tad bit of performance due to reduced string weight vs a flemish with the same strand count.  I believe those are the two "biggies" with Olympic shooters.  They use a whole different type rig than most of us, and they generally shoot much lighter weights and much higher strand counts.  Just a different ballgame.

Flemish are more adjustable, and usually quieter (naked string).

Get down to it, either one works just fine if it's made right.  You aren't missing anything of note with one or the other.

It just irks me to see misinformation purported about strings, especially by folks you trust to  know what they are talking about.

[McDave]

I really don't know the answer to your question, since I've only used flemmish strings, but everytime one has become frayed or broke, it was always at the nock.  Endless strings usually are served around the nock loops, and I wonder if that serving makes up for the potential weakness noted by David?

[30coupe]

Originally posted by LBR:
 

Mike Fedora once said to me "You never see an olympic shooter shooting a flemish string, do you?"  

I'd have had to reply "No, but I've never seen an Olympic shooter competeing with a Fedora bow either."

In his warranty he had (has?)a statement about flemish strings being less accurate, and possibly dangerous.  I e-mailed him asking what this was based on, no answer.  Saw some other crazy claims about strings by a different guy associated with different bow, couldn't get any answers there either. And the infamous "the flemish string (I) included with your bow caused the limbs to twist"--that was by far the most hilarious statement I've seen.

Endless strings are easier to reproduce one to the next, whether it's the same maker or a different one.  Flemish have a lot more of the personality of the maker in them.  Endless may add a tad bit of performance due to reduced string weight vs a flemish with the same strand count.  I believe those are the two "biggies" with Olympic shooters.  They use a whole different type rig than most of us, and they generally shoot much lighter weights and much higher strand counts.  Just a different ballgame.

Flemish are more adjustable, and usually quieter (naked string).

Get down to it, either one works just fine if it's made right.  You aren't missing anything of note with one or the other.

It just irks me to see misinformation purported about strings, especially by folks you trust to  know what they are talking about. [/b]

I have to agree with everything you said, Chad! I'd also like to ask if he had seen a hunter using an Olympic bow.

I've made both types of string. The only advantage I can see with endless loop strings would be that I can make them more consistent in length, which is probably important to Olympic archers but really makes no noticeable difference on a hunting bow.

Like Chad, I also find Flemish strings to be quieter than endless loop strings, which is why you will find a Flemish string on all of my bows. I am a bow hunter, not an Olympic archer. I also know I can't shoot well enough to tell the difference in terms of accuracy, but I can shoot well enough to kill critters.

If you are using Flemish strings, and they are working for you, I see no reason to change.

The idea that Flemish strings can cause damage to your bow is laughable. I would love to see ANYONE demonstrate exactly how that might happen.

[30coupe]

Originally posted by McDave:
I really don't know the answer to your question, since I've only used flemmish strings, but everytime one has become frayed or broke, it was always at the nock.  Endless strings usually are served around the nock loops, and I wonder if that serving makes up for the potential weakness noted by David?

The endless ones wear about the same at the nock, McDave.

[LBR]

I've been asked to submit some endless and flemish for tests, including breaking strength...just haven't had time to do it.  Maybe before too long.  I don't think it matters one way or the other.

[TRAP]

I use endless loops on my vintage bows because I can match colors up with strings produced back in the day and they just seem to look better on those bows to me.  And they work just fine. Mostly an aesthetics based decision.

I use skinny flemish strings on my modern recurves because they are lighter, quieter, faster for me.

I agree with the statement above that it's important to have a well made string regardless if it's a endless loop or flemish.  

The money and time you've invested in your bow and your shot depend on it.

Trap

[JamesV]

Endless loop for me, that is what I know how to make and too lazy/old to learn anything new unless I feel it will be an advantage.

I see "well made" to describe strings, if an endless loop string is the right length and the serving is tight, how can it be NOT be well made? Please explain this to me in detail. I need to learn how to build a "well made string" after 50 years of string building.

James

[Roadkill]

Just how longhave each been made?  I can make either as I have both. The flemish string can be very versitile as the bottom loop can be fashioned with a timber hitch.  One string from my bow can serve as an emergency string for my partners.

[Roadkill]

I meant to say I have jigs for both kinds of string

[LBR]

if a string is the right length and the serving is tight, how can it be NOT well made.  

Those are two biggies, but it can also have uneven strand tension, overbuilt/underbuilt, center serving fitting the nocks too loose/too tight, etc.

[Robertfishes]

I'm thinking that the endless strings might be lighter weight too.??  LBR, Helen loves the D-97 endless loop strings you made her. She placed 2nd (womens barebow) in the Collegate Indoor Nationals and is heading to Utah in a couple of weeks for the Collegate outdoor national championships at SUU..I just refinished the 66" target longbow I made her and she has at least 3 strings from you. I still have flemish twist padded loop strings on my bows, it's what I'm used to.

[Bear Heart]

Most info I have found show endless loop to be faster given the same amount of strands.  This may be due to less stretch.  My practical experience has me believing flemish to be much quieter.
But in the end I find two color flemish strings to be more appealing to the eye.

[PowDuck]

Originally posted by LBR:
 

Mike Fedora once said to me "You never see an olympic shooter shooting a flemish string, do you?"  

I'd have had to reply "No, but I've never seen an Olympic shooter competeing with a Fedora bow either."[/b]

[sawtoothscream]

I used both and I prefer endless.  Just seem to shoot better with it for some reason. Might just be in my head though  

[Bjorn]

I have shot lots of both and as usual 'who' is way more important than 'what'.

[NothingHappenedToday]

I shoot with Flemish because I can make the myself (home-made jig). Another advantage over endless loops that no one mentioned is that they look so much better on a bow IMHO (currently have a black/tan combo on my Hummingbird).  When you like the looks of your bow you tend to shoot better, right? I always say, "don't shoot with your most accurate bow, shoot with your best looking bow"

[SteveB]

Can't say for sure, but before the ILF bow, Mike Fedora had a line of widely accepted and used target bows. It would not be surprising to find they have been used in the Olympics - at the very least at top end Fita/etc. events. I tend to listen to someone that has made 1000's of bows over 50 plus years that are some of the finest ever made.

[Red Beastmaster]

I have endless on my recurves, and flemish on my longbows. Flemish just looks cool on a longbow.