ok lets talk compass vs GPS

[MikeW]

I've never used a GPS and rarely use a compass. I've never really needed to. I always thought a compass was for city slickers who don't know how to hike in the mountains, that is until I got lost in my own backyard one time. Couldn't see any land marks or the sun and I had no idea of north, south, east or west. Panic started to set in, it wasn't a good feeling! I've been disoriented a couple times since then. I carry a compass now and get a bearing before I enter the woods.

[jacobsladder]

i used to coon hunt alot...i found out quickly how important a compass is... you could be in your back yard in the pitch black and walk out the opposite direction...compass is very handy...especially in the dark.

[Plumbob]

I didn't have time too read all the posts this morning so I am sorry if this has already been stated but a UTM scale, a map and a GPS.

Unabelievable tools, both fun and accurate.

[the Ferret]

Ok John Havard, I read your links. Now I have a headache and need some advils. Holy crap, how complicated is that?    

[madness522]

You're only lost if you have to be somewhere. Otherwise you're just out for a walk.....

If hunting a new area I will have at least a map and compass and more times than not a GPS and extra batteries.

[Talondale]

Ferret,
   I use everything.  Mostly the GPS is for plotting places I want to remember (like my truck) and looking at my elevation and how many miles I've walked.  I take it out and look at it occassionally but mostly I use the map.  Where I'm hunting there are features I can use to determine my location, like mountains and creeks.  But I grew up in the flat tidalwaters of Eastern Virginia where the highest elevation change is 10 feet.  One thing I learned to do is figure out where the boundaries are for where I am hunting East, West, North, and South.  Rarely on the east coast do we hunt anywhere that doesn't have some sort of boundary within a day's walk.  So what I do is figure out what my boundaries are and every so often I reacquaint myself to where I am in relation to my borders.  (The river is the east boundary and that way is east so the river is that way...)  If you know that you can eventual figure out where you are, it may just take a while.  This works well when driving in unfamilar territory too.  If you know what roads are running either N/S or E/W and you haven't crossed them yet you have a general idea of where you are.  If you need to know precisely just head in one direction until you hit your boundary.   I try to keep a general idea of the direction I'm walking in all the time anyway using the sun and a compass.

[Sawtooth]

ferret,

I highly recommend you read through Dick Blust's essays on the Kifaru website, which John Harvard was kind enough to post links to in this thread.  It will no longer be "black magic".  Dick has done a wonderful job on those essays.  He emphasizes the use of a "system", which includes map, compass AND GPS.  Good luck to you.

[Jeff Strubberg]

A lat/long is an absolute, the best compass heading is a guess....

A compass and map obviously works.  It's been used to navigate for hundreds of years, at least.  A person with practice and training really doesn't need anything else.

HOWEVER.....

The arguments against a decent GPS unit are just silly.  You cannot tell me that sticking an extra set of AA batteries in your pocket or pack is something you aren't doing ANYWAY.  If you are using a flashlight to look at that map in the dark, you are already carrying the tools to get your dead GPS back up and working.

If all I want to know is "where am I, and where is my truck?", a GPS is going to be quicker, more reliable and simpler than a map and compass for 99% of the population.

Everyone should learn how a GPS works, even down to taking a class on orienteering and compass use.  After that, unless you really enjoy orienteering I suggest you get a decent GPS unit and an extra set of batteries.


BTW, those of you still using duracells, do yourself a favor and look at rechargable NiMH batteries.  You will save yourself a lot of trouble and money.

[Talondale]

Jeff,
   Keep in mind that rechargeables have a shorter use life during cold weather.  Better to have Lithium batteries than rechargeable.  I've tried both and once the temp drops rechargeables aren't very useful.

[Naphtali]

Most GPS units' power lasts -- what?? -- less than two hours. This is fine, perhaps until you need the device. If the power source is drained, through use (unlikely), through defect, through misadventure, you have a problem. Severe ionospheric disruption, I understand, may also cause problems.
***
The easiest compass to use in an emergency, I believe, is the Suunto KB-14 360R/D. These are sighting compasses that show the azimuth going and coming, and allow you to adjust for declination.

If you live on the eastern seaboard and take a trip to visit me in Montana, magnetic north is in a different position relative to grid/true north. Most compasses rely on your ability to remember the difference, and to apply the arithmetic to the map. When you're frightened, you might neglect the arithmetic.

Declination adjustment allows you to rotate the compasses degree card at will. When you sight your mark, your reading will match the map. And you can do this in the comfort of your home.

The downside is that convenience costs.

[Titan_Bow]

Another thing that I think is at play here...  Alot of folks that say you dont use or need a GPS and simply take a bearing when you leave the truck.
 I think that hunting style and hunting area dictate how extensive you may need to use land navigation skills more than anything else.  If I'm in a SC woodlot that I've hunted a hundred times before, sure, a GPS is not real important.  But if I'm trying to find a specific wallow 5 miles back in a Colorado wilderness area that I've only seen once before on a summer scouting trip, and its 4am,  a GPS becomes an invaluable tool to have. Sure, with my military training, I know how to find it with just a map and a compass, but I would wager that most folks could not.
  I'm not saying that a GPS is the end-all solution, but it really opens up opportunities if you use it correctly.

[Jeff Strubberg]

Talon,

Maybe on a regular rechargable.  I haven't found that to be the case on NiMH rechargables.

Maybe it's just that the higher mh batteris I use are so far above a standard battery that the loss doesn't matter.  I can run my flashlights for eight-ten times as long on a 2500mh battery over a regular duracell.  

Naph....two hours of continuos use, maybe.  That's days worth of real time.  Again, if you are silly enought to go into the woods without extra batteris, the term is "natural selection", not "bad GPS".

Does anyone here go out into the woods without spares for your flashlight?

[Sawtooth]

Yup, lithium batteries are the way to go.  I can sure get lots more than -less than two hours- out of mine in my Foretrex 101.  They make the unit lighter weight as well.  With fresh liths in the unit and a set of spares, and using my GPS as the backup to my compass, I can go an awfully long time without running out of juice.

[MikeW]

I read your links. Now I have a headache and need some advils. Holy crap, how complicated is that?

Here is one that is explained a little better I think.
 http://www.compassdude.com/compass-description.shtml

[Titan_Bow]

My Magellan will run about 8 hours continuously, and thats with regular AA's. Of course I have the bare bones model that doesnt inlcude color maps and all, so that may have a big impact on battery life.   You dont need all the fancy map animations and everything anyways.

[BamBooBender]

I was pretty good at landnav in the Army. I still know my pace count etc, etc. I have always relied upon a good map,a lensatic compass, common sense, and woodsmanship(depending on the situation).  

Recently I borrowed a buds gps, cause my boy wanted to try geocaching. I didn't know thing one about it, but in less than an hours time we were finding the local "stashes" from the coordinates he got on the net. All I can say is; I gotta get me one of these! Now, I wouldn't bet my life one one. I would still carry a map and compass, but gps devices are pretty darned handy. Geocaching is a great(and fun actually) way to learn how to use one too.

btw along with all the tips above, a backup gps can be had pretty cheap. A couple of weeks ago I saw a magellan xplorist 200 on clearance at wally world for $85. just my .02

[lt-m-grow]

To me a GPS isn't about getting unlost.  It is about finding stuff.  And finding it quickly so I can hunt there.  To me hunting is all about increasing your odds of being in the right place at the right time.  

So if I can get to better spots - faster - I am hunting longer.

As far as being lost or unlost.  I carry a compass and know the major cardinal direction of a road or river that I could not by-pass no matter what.  True, sometimes that road or river may be 10-20 miles away, but hey, I will get there eventually.

Yet I don't want to get to my "good spots" eventually.

[BamBooBender]

To me a GPS isn't about getting unlost. It is about finding stuff. And finding it quickly so I can hunt there. To me hunting is all about increasing your odds of being in the right place at the right time.

So if I can get to better spots - faster - I am hunting longer.

As far as being lost or unlost. I carry a compass and know the major cardinal direction of a road or river that I could not by-pass no matter what. True, sometimes that road or river may be 10-20 miles away, but hey, I will get there eventually.

Yet I don't want to get to my "good spots" eventually.

Well said!

[chrisg]

Think of this way, if you were going to a movie or a restaurant you might take a look at the reviews first. May even ask a few friends what they thought... So why is it a big deal to do the basic homework on your hunting area? You all seem to do that anyway, so planning how you get in and out is part and parcel of the hunt. Not to knock anyone, the choice of 'system' is not the issue but how good are you at using it when the chips are down? Having a couple of backups is always good.In Botswana all bush trucks carry two spare tyres and a repair kit. We used to teach GPS, compass and mapwork, pacing etc and then take students out with nothing and show that good fieldcraft is the absolute base of everything else. In most places you can navigate by the stars, sun, wind and major landforms. Animal and bird movement too. Everyone makes mistakes, assumption and denial are your enemies. I spent three hours walking too and fro with a radio mast in plain sight that I knew well,it was overcast and the wind was strong but changed direction 180 degrees, I finally used termite heaps to get my bearings and was back at my truck in fifteen minutes, twit!!!
I carry a Silva orienteering compass with two base plate scales plus a button compass and used to carry a garmin IIplus until it was stolen!Maps are cheap,free on the web, tell me where is the problem?
chrisg

[Strutter]

The yellow etrex is good for about 20 hours on a set of AA batteries if it's in battery save mode.  It's not fancy but it does everything it needs to.  If you put a new set of batteries in and they run down before you get back to camp, you're probably lost.

Rob