Lets talk Catskills, NY bowhunting: Antler Restriction

[ron w]

There may be a nice buck near every New Yorker but that don't mean you will have a chance to hunt him or even access to the property around him.     It should be up to the hunter to make the choice to shoot or pass, not some guy behind a desk in Albany!

[Mint]

"3 points, at least 1" long on one side for a legal buck."

Don't tell me that qualifies for a trophy buck, basically all this law does is outlaw shooting spikes and little forkhorns. Spikes are the dumbest animal in the woods and all this law does is give them a chance to learn some basic survival skills.

I think it is a good idea because after the first year all those spikes will be able to be shot the next year since they all will be six pointers at least.

I can't tell you how many times spikes have busted me in the tree and just stand there looking at me or even walking around the tree and catching my scent and not doing a thing but lift their heads. I've never shot a spike and don't plan to where I hunt but we have plenty of does we are allowed to shoot.

But I do understand where some hunters want to shoot anything since they don't have the time to hunt more than a few times. I see this on long island where during the rut the woods are packed with hunters that will shoot anything since they will be only hunting for a week or two.

I remember one year where this compund hunter by me shot this beautiful 10 pointer that was about a 135 - 140 and then the next saturday he shot this little dink spike.

I do think it should only be for the southern zones though where the population can support it.

[Knawbone]

Some years I have little time to scout or hunt. Those are the years when I'll shoot the first buck I see, because it may very well be the only chance I'll get. So I totally understand anyone wanting to do the same. Oyher years I have a lot of time to scout and hunt. Those are the years I try to search out the big boys. The problem is there really aren't any big boys were I hunt. True, there might be one or two around, and truth be told, I put a tag on one about once every 10 yrs. I'd just like to see my herd quality go up and the percentages go up a little for success. There are nutritional requirement to consider ect. There is habitate improvement ect. There are other factors at play were heard quality is concerned. New york has never been known as a big buck state in compare to say Iowa or some of the other mid western states. It never will be either. That isn't important to  most of us bow and gun hunters here in NY, myself included. I like tough hunting, and I'll match my deer knowledge and success rates with the best because I am a NY deer hunter. Id still like to see my heard improve and do practice selection and land improvement on my land.But the fact is, unless it's done on adjacent lands, it's all for naught.I'm willing to put in the work and sacrifice to make the hunting better, but the fact is.... I can't do it alone.Hey, maybe we should just leave things the way they are and not even try. Or, maybe we should try, I really don't know!

[Bobaru]

Too bad you guys aren't seeing bucks.  I'm not currently having that problem.  Saw 7 or 8 last year that were 8 points or over.  Plus, this spring I'm seeing way more deer in the fields feeding than ever.  I think all of the Finger Lakes is experiencing an upswing in populations with larger bucks in the mix.

[Mint]

NY does have the genetics and can produce some monsters if they are allowed to live that long.

Just look at the areas where deer can't be hunted because of houses etc and see how big the deer are there.

On Long Island we use to have a lot of big bucks but then they upped the buck tags where if you shot a doe you earned another buck tag and they allowed bucks to be taken during the shot gun season and poaching has increased. All this decreased the big bucks on long island.

[gnihsifnamk]

Maybe there could just be antler restrictions for gun season?

[Knawbone]

Bobaru, Glad to here it. I bet your pumped for the upcoming season! I used to hunt the Trumansburg area in ullyses township were I grew up. There was always the slim chance to bag a monster buck. Made for some exciting hunting. I managed to get a big 9 point one year that dressed out 215 lbs. The deer was 8 yrs. old.Best of luck to you.

[Knawbone]

Your right Mint, some areas do have the potential and some areas don't. I'm talking generally here, but your right, you do have to let them grow. A two year old buck has a much better chance to survive than a yearling because they have gone threw a hunting season.

[Sean B]

I'm not for state wide AR, manyif not most, places in NY don't need it.  My son hunts out by the finger lakes and they kill deer up there that would scare you!!  Here in Dutchess Putnam and Westchester, we've been getting some really good bucks.

 My area of the Catskills is a bit of a different story. I know that the locals, for the most part wont kill does, and the look down upon people who do.  If you go to the local coffee shop during deer season, you hear "getcher buck yet??"  The DEC doesn't help by drastically cutting the management permits in that area. and let me tell you, I see a TON of does.  The DEC claims that the numbers aren't representative of the over all heard in the zone because of "feeding".   As I stated in my earlier post, in the late 70's, 80's and early to mid 90's bucks were few and far between.  you could walk for miles in the woods and not come across a scrape or a rub. But as for a state wide AR, I don't feel that its necessary.

[WTM45]

Forkhorn or 8ptr, the genes are already there.  Does not matter at what age they breed as to if "good" or "bad" genetics continue in the herd.
Antler growth has much more to do with available nutrition.  UGA and Texas A&M have done extensive studies on this.  If anything, MATURE bucks with spikes or forkhorns are the detriment to the herd.

Too many states are into "trophy" potential which is money driven.  Hunters are the true game managers.  If a hunter is OK with a forkhorn or spike, well, that should be their choice.  They buy their tag, they take what they are satisfied with.

Yep.  I hunt the Catskills.  No, I am not a resident of NY.  I do believe the resident's voices should be heard the loudest on the issue.

Gun hunters are the vast majority in NY.  They already get one buck.  Those who take a second buck either by archery or muzzleloader are not a large percentage.

[joe skipp]

QDM here in the Southern Zone...Butchers are complaining the lack of deer they are seeing coming in from hunters.

Taxidermist stating they are getting in more quality, mature bucks. I see both sides where I bowhunt, a few nice bucks but quite a few inferior deer, spikes, 3 or 4 pts. These inferior deer are still here now close to 3 yrs. Are these the deer breeding the does once a good mature buck is taken prior to the rut?

I love eating venison so I bowhunt Jersey and CT along with NY but most of my time is in Jersey where I'm not restricted and can put some meat in my freezer. It's very hard on a bowhunter who takes a week or two off to hunt and watches nothing but "Non shootable bucks" walk by every day.

Everything depends on your area to bowhunt. I feel the DEC mis manages the antlerless permits and issue far too many. Loss of habitat for these animals plays an important role in the DEC decisions. Westchester/Putnam counties where gaining access to private land is extremely difficult, give these bucks a chance to grow and mature.

The same can't be said for State Land. QDM is a double edge sword, has good points and bad. I still feel inferior deer should be culled somewhere down the road, especially if you take the only mature/shootable buck on the property you hunt AND no other shootable buck comes in there looking to service the does.

I know it's not easy managing a deer herd county by county and as bowhunters, we just hope all will work out for us.

[Knawbone]

Good discussion everyone. Iv' learned a few things by this topic. I don;t think there are any hard core right or wrong answers here. We obviously have one common concern and a love for Deer hunting. Whatever restrictions we put in place should be for the betterment of or sport and not on our individual rights as hunters and land owners. Looks to me that management should be regional and tapered to the situation at hand with the voices of those hunters effected  guiding it.
May we continue to voice our concerns and effect the state authority into doing what is best for our Deer and it's hunters.

[tradlab]

New York ranks as one of the worst states for yearling buck survival..I believe we lose 70% or more of our yearling bucks from the data I read.A 120 inch buck is a nice buck but not usually a mature 4.5 yr old or older buck with exceptons.It would be nice to see more mature bucks in NY.A one buck limit would help.  There are also those that fill multiple buck permits purchased by or for non hunting family members curbing this could help as well.This is a very touchy subject as some people hunt strictly for meat while others thrive on the challenge of pursuing a mature buck, we need to find a balance for everyone and thats no easy task.

[WTM45]

Another point of discussion, is that in areas with few or no doe permits issued guess what becomes the target?  Any buck.
That's simply how it is.
AR those bucks and watch the participation/license sales decrease.
It is not a clear line in the sand.

[tradlab]

New York ranks as one of the worst states for yearling buck survival..I believe we lose 70% or more of our yearling bucks from the data I read.A 120 inch buck is a nice buck but not usually a mature 4.5 yr old or older buck with exceptons.It would be nice to see more mature bucks in NY.A one buck limit would help.  There are also those that fill multiple buck permits purchased by or for non hunting family members curbing this could help as well.This is a very touchy subject as some people hunt strictly for meat while others thrive on the challenge of pursuing a mature buck, we need to find a balance for everyone and thats no easy task.

[tradlab]

Sorry for the double post .

[woodchucker]

One thing that I have learned from MANY years of gun hunting.....

"Most" gun hunters, only take off a couple of days,at the MOST, maybe a week to hunt. They head to "deer camp" for opening day and hunt. If they shoot the 1st spike that walks in front of them... They're DONE!!! Fine with them, the quick sucess was just what they were looking for!!!

I have killed many good bucks, late in the season. The crowds are gone,and I pretty much have the woods to myself... I like to HUNT!!!

I don't like, or agree, with antler restrictions... The old system worked fine for me!!!!!

Just one old woodchucker's thoughts.....

[wetfeathers]

I believe I should be able to shoot what I choose.  As long as the animal you shoot puts a smile on your face and feeds your family, it's a great harvest. I also believe when we start getting away from hunting for food we are walking on a slippery slope. I feel it should remain a personal decision, not another law that makes it more difficult to feed my family.  My 2 cents.

[2Blade]

I have to say that we dont have much problem seeing alot of deer in my area either. I hear alot of people saying that the numbers are down around here but not in my woods. I seen a nice 8pt the very first morning and then we had 2 killed later on in the season that would make most anyone happy. Theres no AR up here and we see alot of bone but ive read its due to good soil quality and plentaful food sources. I dont want to be told what I can and cant shoot on my own property. AR is not for this guy <----

[Cyclic-Rivers]

I say shoot all the 2 year old spikes.

there I said it. I hunted a place in washington county that outlawed shooting spikes, problem was thats all I would see.  There were 1 1/2-2 year old spikes. They were doing the breeding and I couldnt eat any of them.  I counted 23 spike bucks that year and they all walked.