arrow tuning problems

[DanielB89]

I recently purchased a Hoyt Dorado(AMAZING!!) As great as the bow is, i am having a slight problem with tuning the arrows.

at 15 yards and under you wont really recognize it but if you back out to 30 or so you can see the nock has some up and down movement.  I have a serving string nock point so i have adjusted it up and down.  I just cannot find out what to do to make the arrows fly true.  

I do not believe it to be a release problem because there is no side to side movement.  only nock moving up and down.  

specs:
bow is #64@28(#60's came in strong)
arrows are goldtip 5575's cut to 30.5" with 100 grain brass inserts 125 grain field tip.  I am shooting 3 5.5" RW feathers that are on a helical.  

any advice would be greatly appreciate.  I will try whatever!

[damascusdave]

Arrows do not shoot well at 15 yards and then go wonky after that...have you paper tuned close in?

[Bud B.]

How do your nocks fit the string? Tight?

[DanielB89]

well, at 15, you don't get to see the nock moving up and down since it is so close.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by Bud B.:
How do your nocks fit the string? Tight?

yes.  but not un-slidable and They will not fall off.

[SAVIOUR68]

Try 2 nocks on the string, One above the arrow nock and one below. Your arrow may be going/sliding low during the release causing it to bounce off the shelf

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by SAVIOUR68:
Try 2 nocks on the string, One above the arrow nock and one below. Your arrow may be going/sliding low during the release causing it to bounce off the shelf

Thank you, I will try this and let you know!

[gonefishing600]

Hey DanielB89,

First of all, it would be very helpful if we knew how you draw your string, split finger or three under.

Next question would be, do you have a bow square, and do you know how high your nocking point is above your shelf?

With this information you would get some very accurate advice.

As far as how tight your nocks should fit the string! Per Rod Jenkins, You should be able to give your string a slight tap and they should fall off the string.

Thanks

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by gonefishing600:
Hey DanielB89,

First of all, it would be very helpful if we knew how you draw your string, split finger or three under.

Next question would be, do you have a bow square, and do you know how high your nocking point is above your shelf?

With this information you would get some very accurate advice.

As far as how tight your nocks should fit the string! Per Rod Jenkins, You should be able to give your string a slight tap and they should fall off the string.

Thanks

I do not have a bow square.  I have a nock tied on so with a little elbow grease i can move it to where ever i want.  

I shoot split finger.  I do not think i have a very sloppy release due to the arrows aren't waving left to right, but up and down.  

It is weird.  I have moved the nock point from high to low and can not get the arrows to fly completely true.  
could it be anything with the spine of the arrow or the weight up front?  I just don't know. lol.  Bottom line is, I am stumped!

[Hud]

You may find this information helpful.  It is important to get the nocking point right, before starting. Paper test eliminates the problem of arrows following the grain, or path of least resistance encountered in a bale of straw and some other targets and giving a false reading. Stay close when setting the nocking point, like 5 yards. Shoot in horizontal, not up or down which can change your form.

  http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/  

  http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html

[Bjorn]

Generally side to side is brace and up and down is nock point; so you need to scrutinize the nock point. Are you shooting bareshafts or fletched?

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by Bjorn:
Generally side to side is brace and up and down is nock point; so you need to scrutinize the nock point. Are you shooting bareshafts or fletched?

They are fletched.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by Hud:
You may find this information helpful.  It is important to get the nocking point right, before starting. Paper test eliminates the problem of arrows following the grain, or path of least resistance encountered in a bale of straw and some other targets and giving a false reading. Stay close when setting the nocking point, like 5 yards. Shoot in horizontal, not up or down which can change your form.

   http://elitearrows.com/proper-arrow/  

   http://www.acsbows.com/bowtuning.html  

I will go to a local shop to get a good paper tune, I think that should solve majority of my problem! thank you for all your help and input!

[gonefishing600]

Hey Daniel hold the phone, stop!

Paper tuning is for fine tuning your arrows, you got to rough her in first! You should be seeing good arrow flight before you can paper tune. Don’t discount the fact that you could be over spined or even under spined. I had a similar problem with and older Ben Person recurve, and fixed 98% of the problem by going to a lighter spine.

Try this!

1.Repost a thread on pow wow, and put in the subject line calling all Hoyt Dorado shooter, I need help, and then explain the problem!
2.Get yourself a bow square and set your nocking point at ¾ of an inch for three under.
3.Know your minimum and maximum brace heights, and adjust up and down between the two.  
4.Get yourself a variety of field tip weight above and below your current tip weight.
5.Learn about the archers paradox.
6.Try some bare shaft tuning.

By then you should have attracted plenty of attention from other Dorado shooter, explain your situation.

If you could hang in there and solve the problem yourself, you would learn so much, and never never have to ask for tuning help again on any bow.

[gonefishing600]

So, my next question would be, how did you arrive at 30.5” shafts, 100 grain inserts, and 125 grain tip?

Several of my bows are cut to center, and are anywhere from 46 to 48#@28. I typically shoot Goldtip Traditionals 5575 cut at 30.5” with 145 grains up front with a standard goldtip insert that  weighs 11 grains, total of 156 grains up front.

Your shooting 5575 shafts cut at 30.5 with 225 grains up front, and shooting a bow with a draw weight of 64#@28”.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by gonefishing600:
So, my next question would be, how did you arrive at 30.5” shafts, 100 grain inserts, and 125 grain tip?

Several of my bows are cut to center, and are anywhere from 46 to 48#@28. I typically shoot Goldtip Traditionals 5575 cut at 30.5” with 145 grains up front with a standard goldtip insert that  weighs 11 grains, total of 156 grains up front.

Your shooting 5575 shafts cut at 30.5 with 225 grains up front, and shooting a bow with a draw weight of 64#@28”.

I was thinking the same thing.  I will try it will just the 11 grain tip and a 125 grain tip.  In your opinion, should i cut the arrows any?

[gonefishing600]

Arrow length can be governed by several things, but to get to where you can answer this question, you will need to become proficient in tuning your bow and shaft to each other.  You will need to understand the different shaft spines and how your bow reacts to them. Shooting style can also effect shaft length, for instants, gap shooter sometimes like a longer shaft, to give them a smaller gap.

There are so many elements to the equation that only YOU can determine what that correct length is.

Start by learning to tune bare shafted. Start off with a full length bare shaft say with 100 grain tip. Glue the insert in with some hot melt glue from Big Jim's website so you can easily remove the insert with a little heat, to cut the shaft when needed. He has a video on his website that explains how to do it.

Once your shaft starts flying straight, you know you’re in the ball park, and you can then make the decision whether you want long shafts or short shafts. If where you end up is several inches past your draw length, you know you have more room to cut the shaft for heavier tips. A good rule of thumb to remember is, long shaft light tip, short shaft heavy tip.

If you go through the bare shaft exercise, you will get it. It's kind of like juggling three balls. As a matter of fact it's exactly like juggling three balls. You got to juggle shaft length, with tip weight, with brace height.

PM me if you need more help.

Good luck!

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by gonefishing600:
So, my next question would be, how did you arrive at 30.5” shafts, 100 grain inserts, and 125 grain tip?

Several of my bows are cut to center, and are anywhere from 46 to 48#@28. I typically shoot Goldtip Traditionals 5575 cut at 30.5” with 145 grains up front with a standard goldtip insert that  weighs 11 grains, total of 156 grains up front.

Your shooting 5575 shafts cut at 30.5 with 225 grains up front, and shooting a bow with a draw weight of 64#@28”.

I was thinking about changing the inserts to the regular 11 grain ones.  
How does everyone take out their glued in inserts?   I heat the shafts but didn't know if there is a better way.

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by gonefishing600:
So, my next question would be, how did you arrive at 30.5” shafts, 100 grain inserts, and 125 grain tip?

Several of my bows are cut to center, and are anywhere from 46 to 48#@28. I typically shoot Goldtip Traditionals 5575 cut at 30.5” with 145 grains up front with a standard goldtip insert that  weighs 11 grains, total of 156 grains up front.

Your shooting 5575 shafts cut at 30.5 with 225 grains up front, and shooting a bow with a draw weight of 64#@28”.

these are just what i already had around the house.  I am thinking about moving up to the 75-95's.  what is your opinion on this?

[DanielB89]

Originally posted by gonefishing600:
So, my next question would be, how did you arrive at 30.5” shafts, 100 grain inserts, and 125 grain tip?

Several of my bows are cut to center, and are anywhere from 46 to 48#@28. I typically shoot Goldtip Traditionals 5575 cut at 30.5” with 145 grains up front with a standard goldtip insert that  weighs 11 grains, total of 156 grains up front.

Your shooting 5575 shafts cut at 30.5 with 225 grains up front, and shooting a bow with a draw weight of 64#@28”.

I just had them laying around the house, so would you recommend going up to the 75-95's?  I have been thinking about it.