Thoughts on Baiting

[hnt2mch]

i was sad when i heard they passed it even though i knew it was coming.certain folks on the board have been pushing it for years and they certainly didn't research it. all about the dollar.
 i am curious as to how we are going to handle it in the club i belong to i haven't heard yet.
 at a nwtf banquet earlier this year there were some game wardens there that said they will write more tickets this season than ever with the laws as they are.
 but be all as it is i ain't gonna stop hunting guesss i will just have to adapt!

[NBK]

Originally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above.

[JamesKerr]

Originally posted by NBK:
 

Originally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above. [/b]

I agree with you to a point. As I said in my earlier post I hunt over bait probably 90% of the time. Where I hunt in southern Arkansas everyone and I mean everyone puts out feeders and food plots. Do I think outlawing baiting would be beneficial to hunting whitetails nation wide absolutely! The problem is there are too many people who would never let that become a reality, and there is too much money in the baiting industry. I use bait on my families land because if I didn't believe me 95% of our deer would move to someone else's land and me nor anyone else in my family would ever kill a deer on our land. As I also stated earlier I do not think that baiting causes deer to become nocturnal (at least in my area). I truly believe deer go nocturnal because of being over pressured in areas. My family and I have seen it many times when we are hunting and on our game cameras. Generally after Arkansas rifle season starts around the beginning of November our deer go nocturnal because that is when more hunters show up in our area. There used to not be near as many bowhunters even when I started bowhunting 8 years ago so the deer moved around during the early archery season a lot more. However it seems every year we get more and more bowhunters (not saying that's a bad thing       )and our deer are going nocturnal earlier and earlier in the season as more people are hunting putting more pressure on the deer.

[m midd]

I dont have much to add because most of what i believe has already been said. At our 700 acre deer camp i have witnessed many of the things said above. I have hunted and killed over bait and it is effective to an extent. I dont hunt  there very much anymore but when i do i am either in a staging area or in a big draw between 2 food plots and never hunt over corn or a food plot. Bait has changed the pattern there. I have no problem with people baiting where it is legal and dont pass judgement on anyone who does. Its funny because i have about 1600 acres of private land to hunt and these days i choose to hunt public land. There is plenty of bait there you just have to find the trees and wait for it to fall.

[Izzy]

As with everything, bait is not 100% good or bad in my eyes and experience. Ive hunted deer over bait and killed but longed to get away from feeders because of their skittishness and I did admittedly get the feeling I was "Zoo" hunting. I enjoyed those hunts but not like I do enjoy a NY hunt on my friends or families properties or state land where I dont hunt bait.

         Ive hunted bear over bait and killed but did not treasure those bears like the one I killed at 5 yards while still hunting. Same with hogs. Hunted them at times over bait and did well while in other places I couldnt get them on bait during daylight hours. My favorite hog was killed while stalking. Stalked to under 10 yards on him.

         Will I ever hunt bait again? Hell yes. Do I need it? Hell no. I wish I could use it in the Adirondacks at times. In southern NY it would be of no use to me.

         For me the least important factor regarding bait  is what other people think about me hunting bait or if Im following a "Traditional" code by using it. These days as an American I find myself having to fight harder and harder to exercise free will and will not allow that to creep into my passion for hunting. If you do use it you'll find its not 100% and can be more trouble and more money than its worth but at least you will know for yourself and not rely on experience of others who may never have hunted under your circumstances. Good luck in your quest for answers.

[Cyclic-Rivers]

Originally posted by NBK:
 

Originally posted by Whip:
I should add that generally I don't have a problem with how other people hunt if they are within the law.  The problem with baiting though, at least where I hunt, is that our hunting parcels are small - generally 40-200 acres.  So even though I choose not to bait, if my neighbor baits it does have a major impact on my hunting whether I like it or not.  No, I can't control how they hunt, but they do directly influence my hunting negatively.

Comparing a bait pile to a corn field or even a food plot is apples and oranges.  If a bait pile had to be spread over a 2-20 acre area they would be far less effective.

I agree with joe.  We own 240 acres of northern wisconsin big woods and for the first two years of hunting it, we didn't bait, but our neighbors did, (one actually got pinched for over baiting).  Trail cam pics showed some deer, but nothing to write home about.  Last year we agreed to start baiting to (cringe) "pull some deer over".  Yep, we saw a lot more deer, but the only mature buck I had close was when I was set up away from any bait.  
My bottom line... Baiting for white tails is detrimental to whitetail hunting.  Period.  It allows the deer the luxury of being nocturnal because they can satisfy caloric needs quickly.  It limits movement because they don't need to travel as far to find food.  It allows deer to more easily pattern the hunters because of the required trips to bait sites and subsequent limited stands.  It creates conflict amongst hunters who feel a sense of ownership over their bait site even when on public land.  It facilitates the spread of diseases such as CWD.
What are the benefits?  I can see its use concerning the very young, elderly, or disabled.
Wisconsin guys, remember the fall of 2002?  I believe that was the one season in recent times when baiting was temporarily banned.  I saw more deer and mature bucks on the hoof during daylight hours that fall than any year since.  
Getting back to your OP.  you have my sympathy that your state now allows baiting deer.  Your hunting experience will change and not for the better.
My sentiments are my own and I mean no offense to those who feel differently, but I truly believe that banning baiting for deer would greatly benefit all who hunt for the reasons stated above. [/b]

It sounds like us guys from Wisconsin who grew up with baiting, seen it banned and brought back are pretty much on the same page.  

It just plain ruins "hunting" and makes for shooting.  You no longer have to find natural funnels or pick the right trails.  The way I started hunting was to go in the woods, pick a nice place "for me"  and dump bait.  deer would show up religiously at sun up and just before dark.  I stopped long before the ban but, after the ban I saw 20X more deer and at all hours of the day, not just minutes before or after legal shooting.  

I am friends with a retired DNR official who was working at the time and said hundreds of people opposed to the Ban were  impressed by how many deer they saw not baiting.

I can only base this on MY experience, I understand some people in some other state may have experienced something different. Maybe their deer numbers were different or food was different.  

I am not getting into the whole food plot and corn field is the same thing argument.  I disagree.  a cornfield is not a condensed little pile of food with sticks around it to guarantee a broadside shot and block the deers head.

Personally, I think everyone would be better off without it. Better hunting and less disease spread.

[TRADSTYK]

I choose not to bait because we hunt crop fields and mast trees. We all know when the acorns are dropping the deer will be there. I know it is legal to bait on private land in Ohio, but my land is off limits to any baiting.

[uglyjake]

We are in the day that many people want instant gratification.  Some people brag that they went to their deer stand and within minutes deer were coming back into the feeder, they shot a deer and were back home within an hour.  Baiting for deer is a multimillion dollar business.  If baiting is new to your area you may want to consider opening a bait/feed supply store.

[Gator1]

An issue that I see in Minnesota where it is illegal is

The neighboring property owner has baited and the deer pretty much nocturnal come in right at dark to feed and then cross the road

   

X2 on NbK and Charlie's take it has ruined the 80 acres next to this poachers pile that I lease

[Steve Chappell]

I find it ironic one elects to challenge them self by using a traditional bow over a compound and crossbow then removes the challenge and skill of HUNTING buy using bait. IMHO baiting is not good for the animals or the skill of hunting. While I do not like or use bait and do not want it anywhere near where I hunt, if others want to use it does not bother me.

[Roger Norris]

I should add....from an ethical and moral standpoint, if it is legal I couldn't care less about baiting. I don't see it as that big of an ethical issue.

My comments are based on my experience, having baited in the past. I feel that it ruins natural movement.

[Goshawkin]

Originally posted by Kevin Dill:
I don't pass judgment on those who choose to bait, but it's not for me. I know all the arguments and cultural history of baiting, but I'm just not interested in it. I use the analogy of chumming trout with cheese nibbles, so I can catch one on a dry fly and bamboo rod. I wanted to hunt Africa for a few years, but I eventually wrote it off my list due to the baiting (food & water stations). I can't do it.

Again and for the record; I spend no time worrying about who hunts over bait. I'm good with not using it for my hunts.

Good post,     I feel the same about baiting.

I did go on a baited bear hunt years ago and shot a bear. I'd rate it as one of the lamest things I've ever done.A bunch of my friends went back the next year,but I passed on it.I have no problem with other people doing it,it's just not for me.A few of my friends love it and go every year,that's great,they really enjoy it.I even gave away the rug I had made. Used to look at at and not be very proud. I wouldn't hunt deer over feeders either,but would have no problem hunting baited hogs as I consider them more of a problem than a game animal.
I ran beagles and coonhounds since I was a kid.I'd love to go out west and run lions with hounds,but I really wouldn't want to shoot one though unless the dogs were mine.Weird,I know,but just how I feel.All of us on here bowhunt because we enjoy it. The way I look at it is,if it's legal and it makes you happy,have at it.

[Stephengiles]

I've never hunted it but I would think that if it's not your feeder and your corn I wouldnt be nowhere near it just because you know how people are. That being said since I'm from Alabama I just have to rant a little. For those of you not from here we have a conservation advisory board.a board comprised of business men .not saying they are bad people or anything but one owns moultrie feeders and another owns the dream ranch/canned hunt .so you see where this is going.they won't enforce the hundred yard rule anyway so do what you want.I hunt public land and the last gun hunt I went on I found home made jug feeders, but so what when I was leaving on my way out I passed a clear cut with six or so trucks and they were just hunting from the backs of their trucks they don't have the resources to patrol on a regular basis and don't get me started on the atvs which aren't supposed to get off the marked roads. Sorry to ramble but I had to vent not because I have a problem with baiting cause I don't it just seems like our whole situation in Alana as a mess right now.

[jkm97]

Originally posted by Cmane07:
My main problem with baiting down here is that mostly the younger generation such as myself do not know how to go "hunt" deer anymore.  They simply find an open area and start dumping corn or rice bran every couple days and climb up the nearest tree.  In certain areas I'm sure its different but here in Mississippi I feel like you can be just as effective if you actually scout and find trails and hot acorn trees etc. but that's just my 2 cents.

Agreed

[Bldtrailer]

What ever happened to WOODSMANSHIP!!!  I hate bait,  if leagle         or just wanting   instant gratification, it's not what I call HUNTING. If you bait why not just get/use  a crossbow(bowgun) while your at it? Go feed a cow for weeks and then shoot it as it comes to eat, what's        the challege/difference?

[Kevin Dill]

Maybe part of the problem is the way baiting tends to become THE way to get the shot. People are baiting on 3 sides of you...what will you do? I have seen baiting become big business and it involves big money in the greater scheme.

A guy walks in to his stand and drops a couple ripe pippins at 15 yards...just in case.

Another guy is hauling hundreds of pounds of mixed grain behind his atv or tractor, and he's refilling multiple bait stations with electronically timed feeders.

Should we bait turkeys if it doesn't harm the population?

When antelope are in parched dry country, is it fair to 1) create....and 2) sit on the only water source for 5 miles in any direction?

Lots of considerations.

[Ray Hammond]

We used feeders in SC to keep hogs and deer on the property but didn't hunt over them unless someone was handicapped.

I can tell you that in the South deer just plain have too much to eat 11 months a year- corn is dessert to them and hogs except when there's nothing else around

[Kituwa]

Baiting may have become leagle in Alabama just this year but it has been going on widespred for a good while.In my area a lot of the clubs are mostly well to do people,doctors, lawyers and the like.The wardens pretty much leave those clubs alone even though it is common knolage that they have been baiting heavily for years.And i dont mean a sack or two dumped out, they bring it in litterally by the truck loads.My father in laws farm where we live and hunt is a little over 100 acres surrounded by one of these clubs.Used to be pretty good hunting on the farm but about the last 3 years you will see almost no deer durring the daylight.Plenty of sign and see them all over if you walk out with a flashlight but none durring the day.Once people start sturring getting ready for deer season,putting up stands and such,the deer have no reason to head out and feed in the evenings.They know where the feeder are and it is just way more safe for them to wait till dark,deer are smart like that.From what i have heard the clubs around us have been shooting way less deer too. Baiting can help your hunting if its done small scale and well thought out, but not if the surrounding land is being heavilly baited.One thing too here in bama that makes it worse,our deer rut is very late, pretty much dont start until the end of the season in south bama so you cant figure much on the rut to give the deer to get up and roam around durring shooting hours either.

[Arwin]

I am a fan of food scents for the late season. Apple seems to work the best when the snow flies.

  I do not like piles of rotting produce, plus I hunt public land and do not want to give away where I'm hunting.    
  Baiting requires disturbing an area constantly, which tips deer off. Unless you wear rubber gloves, your hand oils gets on the bait too.

   There are plenty of groceries in the woods. If you know what to look for and when, baiting isn't necessary.

[jsweka]

Originally posted by ALwoodsman:
This year Alabama passed a new law allowing bait but you must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  

There's no winning the baiting argument so I won't offer any opinion on it.

However, if I were an Alabama resident, I would have a real problem if the law is actually written as ALwoodsman said.  You must be 100 yards from it and not be able to see it.  What if you're hunting 100 yards from your bait and not able to see it (or not hunting with bait at all) but somebody else has their bait pile closer to your stand and you didn't see it either?  Good luck defending yourself by saying that wasn't your bait pile.  That's a dumb law.  Either allow it or not.