WARNING: My bow blew up. I almost lost an eye, but...

[Goshawkin]

You take a risk whenever you buy a used bow. Was the bow ever dry fired,shot with too light of arrows,overheated,(overdrawn-non glass bow)etc. How can you be 100% sure?
My favorite bows aren't built anymore,so used is my only option.
I like them better than any current production bows I've tried,so the risk is worth it to me.
I plan on ordering a Hawk from Mr.Miller soon,because I won't take the chance on a used no glass bow anymore. (and because I have a LOOOOONg wait for my name to come up on Sunset Hill's list!)      :D

[Gordon Jabben]

When I first started buying bows and making a few, I was told that all bows break sometime.  I think that's still the case even with modern materials.  I have never owned a Miller bow but like Mudd, I would buy one without hesitation.  These bowyers that make a lot of bows just can't stand behind every bow they make forever.

[Kelly]

Whoa, wait a minute here-how is this Mr. Miller's fault in any way?

Yes, he built the bow and warranteed it to the original owner just like all the rest of Bowyers do. Now 3 years later and 3 owners and the bow comes apart. We still do not know a lot of facts that might explain this result.

I for one have experienced first hand, and second hand, bows blowing up in some fashion or another and never once did I think it was the bowyers fault. Almost always there was operator error involved or in some cases breakdown of materials-we are talking about wood here and wood by its very makeup is subject to failures when under stress-bending beyond normal.

Furthermore, Mr Miller will continue to receive the highest claims and credibility from me. Nothing contained within this thread has effected this  and some of you should be ashamed of your rhetoric.

[JDBerry]

Me for one, Am not buying this whole string thing

[nineworlds9]

Forget it.

[flint kemper]

This thread has NEVER mentioned arrow weight. The bow was tuned with carbons.Lets start with the easy questions, finished arrow weight, fast flight or dacron string,was the bow left strung all of the time(I know it's glass) but have to ask? Thanks

[Sixby]

We have a generation that believes someone else has to be responsible.
Millers responsiblility was and is to the original owner of the bow for the length of time he warranted the bow. Very nice bowyers have gone past this responsibility to the point that a lot of people take their niceness for granted and they are now demanding that a third bow owner get the bowyers interest.
Here is the problem. If Mr. Miller does that then he legally assumes a responsibility that he did not have just by examining the bow. It becomes a He said She said and in fact from what I have read here it is already like that. Any bowyer can look at that bow and immediately have a good idea what happened. They can also see that it had nothing at all to do with the bow or the build but it is the material itself that failed.
Generally this is a flaw in nature that is compeletly beyond the bowyers ability to have prior knowledge of. It may become activated by time alone , number of shots, or dry fire undisclosed by a previous owner. It could be that the tip of the bow hit a rafter while the shooter was shooting under the porch. What it was not as far as I can see is any kind of glue failure or fault of the bowyer.

I do not blame him for refusal to do this. If he did I would almost guarantee that the only thing that would make the owner feel better would be to get a new bow or reimbursement of his funds spent.
No bowyer that does this will be able to stay in business long.

Another thing. This entire thread is wrong IMHO. You name the bow and declare it blew up and almost took your eyes out and yet the pics do not show anything at all that could have taken your glass lenses out. That bow is still hung together. You may have got them knocked off your face and then they came out but that is a split and not an explosion.
No ax to grind on this from me and I do not even know Miller so its not personal but this thread defames him, his bows and puts his livelihood at jeopardy and in my opinion without just cause.

God bless you all, Steve

[nineworlds9]

So what are we saying Pat was shooting a 50# bow with what 6-7 gpp arrows?  I'll wait for him to chime in but I'm not taking bets.  

It is/was a glassed bow.  I for one was doing 450+g finished arrows for 9 gpp, totally reasonable, shot @ 28" draw, FF string with muskrat silencers, bow unstrung every session excepting a few days where I shot it every day in a row.  Bow was a pleasure, was whisper quiet, shot like a dream, I just was not accurate enough with it for my skill/preference so on it went.

[Sixby]

We have a generation that believes someone else has to be responsible.
Millers responsiblility was and is to the original owner of the bow for the length of time he warranted the bow. Very nice bowyers have gone past this responsibility to the point that a lot of people take their niceness for granted and they are now demanding that a third bow owner get the bowyers interest.
Here is the problem. If Mr. Miller does that then he legally assumes a responsibility that he did not have just by examining the bow. It becomes a He said She said and in fact from what I have read here it is already like that. Any bowyer can look at that bow and immediately have a good idea what happened. They can also see that it had nothing at all to do with the bow or the build but it is the material itself that failed.
Generally this is a flaw in nature that is compeletly beyond the bowyers ability to have prior knowledge of. It may become activated by time alone , number of shots, or dry fire undisclosed by a previous owner. It could be that the tip of the bow hit a rafter while the shooter was shooting under the porch. What it was not as far as I can see is any kind of glue failure or fault of the bowyer.

I do not blame him for refusal to do this. If he did I would almost guarantee that the only thing that would make the owner feel better would be to get a new bow or reimbursement of his funds spent.
No bowyer that does this will be able to stay in business long.

Another thing. This entire thread is wrong IMHO. You name the bow and declare it blew up and almost took your eyes out and yet the pics do not show anything at all that could have taken your glass lenses out. That bow is still hung together. You may have got them knocked off your face and then they came out but that is a split and not an explosion.
No ax to grind on this from me and I do not even know Miller so its not personal but this thread defames him, his bows and puts his livelihood at jeopardy and in my opinion without just cause.

God bless you all, Steve

[nineworlds9]

Originally posted by Sixby:
We have a generation that believes someone else has to be responsible.
Millers responsiblility was and is to the original owner of the bow for the length of time he warranted the bow. Very nice bowyers have gone past this responsibility to the point that a lot of people take their niceness for granted and they are now demanding that a third bow owner get the bowyers interest.
Here is the problem. If Mr. Miller does that then he legally assumes a responsibility that he did not have just by examining the bow. It becomes a He said She said and in fact from what I have read here it is already like that. Any bowyer can look at that bow and immediately have a good idea what happened. They can also see that it had nothing at all to do with the bow or the build but it is the material itself that failed.
Generally this is a flaw in nature that is compeletly beyond the bowyers ability to have prior knowledge of. It may become activated by time alone , number of shots, or dry fire undisclosed by a previous owner. It could be that the tip of the bow hit a rafter while the shooter was shooting under the porch. What it was not as far as I can see is any kind of glue failure or fault of the bowyer.

I do not blame him for refusal to do this. If he did I would almost guarantee that the only thing that would make the owner feel better would be to get a new bow or reimbursement of his funds spent.
No bowyer that does this will be able to stay in business long.

Another thing. This entire thread is wrong IMHO. You name the bow and declare it blew up and almost took your eyes out and yet the pics do not show anything at all that could have taken your glass lenses out. That bow is still hung together. You may have got them knocked off your face and then they came out but that is a split and not an explosion.
No ax to grind on this from me and I do not even know Miller so its not personal but this thread defames him, his bows and puts his livelihood at jeopardy and in my opinion without just cause.

God bless you all, Steve

I'll take that answer.  That was well said Steve.  TG wins again.  

I deleted my prior replies, gentlemanly that they were I would say by most standards, how many times can a person DISCLAIM that they were not faulting the bowyer...and I'll let my eyes glaze over again.  What this has taught me is that from now on anytime I see a post about a bow or bowyer that approaches veneration, I'm politely shooting it down pure and simple.  They're just bows right? It is just a product.  A fancy Samick Sage?  Show me the magic???  I've done it myself, and I've realized based on this thread its a fallacy.  It's just a smaller verson of shopping at Basspro or Walmart right?  Look what happened to someone like Milton Callaway?  Explain that one, why is no one coming to his defense?  Two sides to every story right?

[pcg]

First, the arrows were properly weighted to the bow & shot like a dream. The string was new. I was shooting out in the open. The bow had never been mishandled. The lam split at almost full draw, instantly shifting the back & belly in opposite directions at the tip, blasting the string off & into my eyes. No big deal. I took the experience as a lesson: Always wear glasses.

Anyone alleging that the thread defames Dave Miller has not read the comments carefully. The incident could have happened w/ any bowyer's bow, and is no doubt a simple materials failure. That said, I had expected Dave to want to examine the bow and I was quite willing to send it to him at my own cost if it could help with future bows he makes. He didn't express interest, and that too is okay with me. I never expected him to replace the bow, nor has that been implied. As noted, any bowyer who replaced every bow that had a problem would survive about 6 months. Bowyers are small businesses, not LL Beans.

Let's drop any further "defaming" discussion and remember the original intent of the thread. WEAR GLASSES when shooting. If you don't you shoot at your own peril.

[JDBerry]

From the shop of JDBerry, Thanks Sixby for your reply, Well said. James

[pcg]

Yes, except that he got it all wrong. The thread is a general warning to shooters. The bow maker is incidental to the incident. Period.

This should NOT be about bowyers defending bowyers, but about shooters shooting wisely.

[False Cast]

Originally posted by flint kemper:
This thread has NEVER mentioned arrow weight. The bow was tuned with carbons.Lets start with the easy questions, finished arrow weight, fast flight or dacron string,was the bow left strung all of the time(I know it's glass) but have to ask? Thanks

I inquired in the second reply to this thread and it has been brought up since then.

If OP had shot properly weighted arrows since he owned it, who knows if any of the previous owners mishandled the bow? We can only speculate.

[damascusdave]

I even wear glasses when stringing a bow...bows are big springs....enough said

[pcg]

On page 21 of "Shooting Straight," Schulz describes how his brother Dan lost his eye. It happened when he was unstringing a bow. The string popped off and the bow tip struck his eye. As damascusdave says above, "I even where glasses when stringing a bow..."

[Overspined]

Don't think I've heard of a bow brand never having an issue. Wood isn't perfect, nor are all the materials.  I saw a pic of one the other day that was delaminated during tillering. You just have to hope it doesn't happen, or aren't hurt when it does.

I never took this thread as disrespecting the bowyer.  Most guys this happens to just keep their secret and deal with the bowyer. It happens to at least a few bows with all of them.

Many bow delaminations I hear about are in the south, or in really hot climates.  Leave em in a car and watch out!  One bowyer told me most of the bows with problems come from the southern states, it took a couple years to figure out how bad the heat was on the bows until looking back. TX was top of the list.

[Daddy Bear]

Originally posted by Daddy Bear:
 

Originally posted by Ron Roehrick:
Daddybear, did you buy the bow new or was it a used bow owned by several people?

The bow was made for me, has been well maintained, no dry fires, B-50 strings, always 9 to 11 gpp arrows, not left strung for long periods, always use a bow pal stringer, kept out of the heat, and properly stored in a cool dry place. Not a post blast expert with determining cause of failures, but the belly lam of Rocky Mountain Juniper split within itself, like it was cleaved by a hatchet.  Don't believe it was a glue issue.  The lam split at the riser end and ran half way up the limb.  The bow was 5 years old this month.  Got a call in for the bowyer, Craig, to see what he says.

As for glasses, I switched to Randolph Rangers years back when I was a competitive rifle shooter in National competition.  Have stuck with them ever since, and they work well for me with my archery tackle.  This was the second bad incident I've had with archery tackle that I was glad to have glasses.  The other was when a broadhead tipped wooden arrow broke along the grain runout on a rift.  The front end of the broken arrow flipped back around with the broadhead smacking my glasses.  That would have been bad to catch on the eye.

later    [/b]

Craig wants me to mail him my Hill, thinks it can be repaired.  Keeping my fingers crossed, I'd hate to see her go.  As for the glasses, mine could have been very bad being I was peppered with glass fibers.  Got one sliver in my hand that I've yet to get out that's been a pain in the rears.  Glad I didn't get one in the eye.

Later  

[gonefishing600]

Another thing that can cause a delamination is a dry fire do to nock failer. Your shooting really good one day, groups are really tight, and bam you hear an arrows slap. You pull your arrows and the next round, you have a dry fire.

It's happend to me several time. Now, every time I hear an arrow slap, I inspect my nocks and have one two occations found half of the nock chipped off.

I guess you could call it half a robin hood.

Something to think about.

[nineworlds9]

Call me immature,
but my RH Miller just hit the classifieds for sale or trade.  Get it while its hot!  Lovely bow.